Generally underwhelming results from 8” LX200 classic

Started by cocheeze, 07/20/2020 08:57AM
Posted 07/20/2020 08:57AM | Edited 07/20/2020 09:01AM Opening Post
Please feel free to move this if it belongs in beginner astronomy or equipment talk instead.

I have owned my Meade 8” LX200 classic (EMC) for a few years now, and i have found over time that i can never get satisfactory results from it when viewing anything other than the moon or sun.

I typically only attempt to view solar system objects, because DSOs all just tend to look like hazy blobs. 

For accessories/hardware, I have meade super plossl eyepieces of the following sizes: 40mm, 26mm, 25mm, 15mm, 12.4mm, 9.7mm, and 6.4mm. I also have a celestron x-cel lx 3x barlow. The diagonal is a standard 1.25” meade. The tripod is stock. I have added a larger dial to the focusing knob to improve fine tuning, but that is the only real modification.

I find that i am not able to manually focus on objects with anything smaller than about a 25mm eyepiece. I think that the problem is that the scope is simply too shaky. A couple of nights ago i was viewing Neowise, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars from a dark site in central oregon, and i just felt completely underwhelmed. Neowise looked okay with the 40mm lens, but anything else was just too blurry and unfocusable. It honestly looked more exciting through my mediocre vivitar 4x30 binoculars. Jupiter looked pretty cool (but very small) through 40mm, and the 40mm with barlow. I was able to spot the 4 galilean moons and pluto in the same shot. All of the other eyepieces were too hard to focus. Same with Saturn. It was focusable at 40mm, but too small to appreciate. Mars was a tiny red dot and really disappointing.

Finally, my questions:

First, am i expecting too much from this scope? Do i need something bigger or more recent to really get good views of those objects?

Second, i have a lead on a NEQ-6 mount with a bunch of upgrades done to it for about $1500, and i am considering deforking the lx200 and trying it on a more robust mount. There is also a 10” lx200gps for sale near me for about $1900, which seems a bit steep but would probably be a big improvement in light collection.

I am just generally not sure where to go from here. I know my stock 8” lx200 classic isn’t doing it for me, and i am willing to make a decent investment to upgrade... but i am not sure where the best place to spend the money is.

Apologies for the long winded post!

Thanks,
Casey
Posted 07/28/2020 02:04AM #1
Save your money. You need to get to 11 inch to really start to see stuff. I sold one complete for 1600. Deals are out there. I have a 9" apo. I get great views . A good 6 in. Refractor will be an improvement. My mewlon and c14 are good. Save , save and save . Then wait until you see what you want . I would go celestron but there are some others that are superb. I have bought good c14s for 7 to 800. 

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Antlerguy's attachment for post 171330
Posted 08/09/2020 11:18PM | Edited 08/09/2020 11:40PM #2
I own a Celestron Nexstar 8SE.  There was a steep learning process on getting a good view.  I experiences some of your issues, but set my expectation low since I an an old beginner.  

Unless you have others to help you, a LX200 10" may be a bit much.   I had a 10" LX50, quite a bit lighter than the 10" LX200.  I could not use it because it was too heavy to handle.  Couldn't do it myself.  It's now the property of the local Astronomy club as a donation.  

You have a sizable investment in your 8" LX200, but your eyepieces could use an upgrade.  And if you're having trouble with a shaking mount, that can be helped.

For the shakes, go out to ebay and pick up a few Sorbothane pucks.  Three minimum.  Size should be at lease 2" in diameter and 1/2" think.  Duro 50 to Duro 70 should do it.  Place them on top of old CDs or DVDs and place the base of the tripod end directly on the center of the puck.  The CD / DVD will help the puck stay clean and put a barrier between the puck and the ground.  It will also reduce abrasion if you set up on concrete or other hard surface.  Sorbothane will react with asphalt so you need a barrier.  MAKE SURE IT'S SORBOTHANE.  ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES.  That "upgrade" will set you back about $20 or so, +/-.  

I have one Plossl that I sorta like.  ONE.  a 40mm Celestron E-Lux.  Nice, but lacking.  I have found some very nice eyepieces on Astromart and "the other" site with a lot of Astronomy-related classified ads.  The eyepieces I found most useful are an Agena 70 degree 38mm (2" barrel), an Explore Scientific 68 degree 24mm, an Explore Scientific 82 degree 14mm and 8.8mm.  I use the 24mm for alignment and pretty much keep it there as my primary eyepiece.  I switch back and forth between the 24mm and 14mm for most viewing.  If I want a low power wide view, I use the 38mm, a high-power view, the 8.8mm.  These eyepieces are much more comfortable in viewing than the Plossls.  Longer eye relief, wide views, sharp images, good snap into focus, few (if any) "blackouts."  The eyepieces changed my viewing from [sigh] OK, to WOW.   You can get the Agena eyepiece for under $100.  If you shop around and are patient, you can find ES eyepieces for 40% - 60% of retail.  Might even find a Televue Panoptic for a good price.  

If I was shopping for eyepieces for an 8" SCT, I'd look hard at eye relief, field of view and power.  Nothing shorter than 8mm, nothing with a field stop of over 45mm if you go to a 2' diagonal, 40mm if you stick with your 1 1/4" diagonal.  Nice wide field of view.  Your Plossl provides around 50 degrees.  Go for at least 68 degrees, more if you can.

I suggest using Stellarium to compare the relative views of various eyepieces and advertised field of view.  

You 8" LX200 is a fine scope.  Just work your way up to more of its potential.

One point point.  And this could make a BIG difference....  Check your scope's collimation.  If it's off even a little, it serious reduces its ability to perform.  
Posted 08/10/2020 12:36AM #3
Given your location I imagine there are at least a couple of sizable astro clubs in the area. While there are a number of potential issues that could cause what you describe there is nothing more helpful than in person help from an experienced person with this kind of issue. That said I will mention a few things in decreasing importance order.

1. Collimation of the scope - if it is not properly aligned then nothing else will make it better. Once you are certain that is not the issue then move on (best to try with more than one diagonal, see below).

2. Verify your diagonal is works properly and is not misaligned. While its not like every other one is bad, it is not exactly a rare issue either.

3. Once you are certain neither of the 2 above issues are the cause then you can move on to things like eye pieces. While quality eye pieces can make a big difference if either of the above issues exist they will not help.

20" MidnighTelescopes f/5
8" f/16 Muffoletto Achro
Meade 6" AR6 f/8.0 Achro
Celestron C11
Parallax PI250 10" F/5 Newt
Vixen FL102S,NA140SS,R200SS
80mm Stellarvue Nighthawk with WO APOupgrade lens, 90mm f/16.67 Parallax Achro
LXD75/LX200, Mini-tower, GP-DX, CG5 ASGT, LXD650, GM-8, G11, GM-100, GM-150EX, GM-200 and a Gemini G40
4" portable AP convertable 44" or 70" pier
Stellarvue M7 Alt-Az, TSL7 Pier/Tripod
12.5" f/5 MidnighTelescopes DOB Swayze optics
Monroe GA
Posted 08/20/2020 04:37AM | Edited 08/20/2020 04:39AM #4
I would recommend upgrading your diagonal to at least a 2" Meade for $150 new.

As for eyepieces, I just bought probably the best deal in eyepieces, this 30mm one:
https://www.eyepiecesetc.com/APM_Ultra_Flat_Field_30mm_70_eyepiece_2_p/17102030.htm

If you don't get a lot better results with the new diagonal and eyepiece, I will be surprised.

As for focus, I have a Meade microfocuser ($250) that can be used with most go-to's from Meade.

Have you collimated the scope recently?  Here are instructions:

To check the collimation of your LX200-ACF, center a bright star that is overhead, or
use a “hot spot” of reflected Sunlight from a chrome car bumper, with the supplied
eyepiece. Allow the telescope to adjust to the temperature of your observation site
before proceeding; temperature differences between the optics and the outside air can
cause distortion in the images.


With the star or hot spot centered, de-focus the image. You will notice that the out of
focus star image looks like a ring of light surrounding a dark central spot; the dark
central spot is in fact the shadow of the secondary mirror.Turn the focus knob until the
ring of light fills about 10% of the eyepiece field-diameter. If the dark central spot is
offset in (i.e., not concentric with) the ring of light, your telescope’s optical system is
misaligned and requires collimation.


Follow these steps for collimation of the optical system:

a. The only adjustments possible, or necessary, on the Advanced Coma-Free
Telescopes LX200-ACF models are from the three screws located at the
edge of the outer surface of the secondary mirror housing.
Caution: Do not force the three collimation screws past their normal travel
and do not loosen them more than two full turns in a counterclockwise
direction or the secondary mirror may come loose from its support.You will
find that the adjustments are very sensitive, usually requiring only one-half
turn or less to produce the desired result.

b. While looking at the defocused star image, notice which direction the darker
shadow is offset in the ring of light or notice which part of the ring is the thinnest. 
Place your index finger in front of the telescope so that it touches
one of the collimation set screws.You will see the shadow of your finger in the ring
of light. Move your finger around the edge of the black plastic secondary mirror
support until you see the shadow of the finger crossing the thinnest part of the
ring of light. At this point, look at the front of the telescope where your finger is
aiming. It will either be pointing directly at a set screw, or it will be between two
set screws aiming at the set screw on the far side of the black plastic secondary
mirror support. This is the set screw that you will adjust.

c. Using the AutoStar II’s Arrow keys at the slowest slew speed, move the
defocused image to the edge of the eyepiece field of view, in the
same direction as the darker shadow is offset in the ring of light.

d. Turn the set screw that you found with the pointing exercise while looking in the
eyepiece. You will notice that the star image will move across the field. If while
turning the defocused star image flies out of the eyepiece field, then you are
turning the screw the wrong way. Turn the opposite direction and bring the image
back to the center of the field.

e. If the screw you are turning becomes very loose, tighten the other two screws by
even amounts. If the screw you are turning gets too tight, unthread the other two
by even amounts.

f. When you bring the image to center, carefully examine the evenness
of the ring of light (concentricity). If you find that the dark center is still off in the
same direction, continue to make the adjustment in the original turning direction.
If it is now off in the opposite direction, you have turned too far and you need to
turn in the opposite direction. Always double check the image in the center of the
field of the eyepiece.

g. You may find after your initial adjustment that the dark center is off in a new
direction (e.g., instead of being off side-to-side it is now off in an up-and-down
direction). In this case repeat steps b through f to find the new adjustment screw.

h. Now try a higher power eyepiece (e.g., 9mm or less) and repeat the above tests.
Any lack of collimation at this point will require only very slight adjustments of the
three set screws.You now have good collimation of the optics.


i. As a final check of alignment, examine the star image in focus with the higher
power eyepiece as suggested (h), under good viewing conditions. The star point
should appear as a small central dot (commonly referred to as an “Airy disc”) with
a diffraction ring surrounding it. To give a final precision collimation, make
extremely slight adjustments of the three set screws, if necessary, to center
the Airy disc in the diffraction ring.You now have the best alignment of the optics
possible with this telescope.

Make sure to vote and vote early for Nov. election.  Request mail-in ballot RIGHT NOW.  Save our Democracy from Trumps Fascism!!

Meade LS 8" ACF on the way....
Posted 08/20/2020 07:17AM #5
LOL....copy cat on the signature line, love it, even if I think the gist of it is BS smile

20" MidnighTelescopes f/5
8" f/16 Muffoletto Achro
Meade 6" AR6 f/8.0 Achro
Celestron C11
Parallax PI250 10" F/5 Newt
Vixen FL102S,NA140SS,R200SS
80mm Stellarvue Nighthawk with WO APOupgrade lens, 90mm f/16.67 Parallax Achro
LXD75/LX200, Mini-tower, GP-DX, CG5 ASGT, LXD650, GM-8, G11, GM-100, GM-150EX, GM-200 and a Gemini G40
4" portable AP convertable 44" or 70" pier
Stellarvue M7 Alt-Az, TSL7 Pier/Tripod
12.5" f/5 MidnighTelescopes DOB Swayze optics
Monroe GA
Posted 08/20/2020 11:29AM | Edited 08/20/2020 11:55AM #6
Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer
LOL....copy cat on the signature line, love it, even if I think the gist of it is BS smile

That's too bad you think it's BS.  Do you only watch only Fox news, the Trump propaganda channel?

Trump doesn't give a hoot about anyone else but himself.  He has the intelligence of a 5th grader at best and is almost illiterate.  An idiot and a moron, just like Tillerson called him before Trump fired him.  Spends every day tweeting hate speech, watching TV all day and then golfs every weekend.  He used to complain that Obama played golf a couple of times. Yeah, right.  Trump shows up for rallies or photo-ops, doesn't do the job.  Takes no responsibility.  It's no wonder that the COVID outbreak in the US is the worst in the world, with the most cases and the most deaths.  It's entirely his fault that we did not have a national response like most developed countries did.  We have 4% of the worlds population and yet 25% of the worlds COVID deaths.  And the Governor of Georgia is not helping.  Opening schools in the middle of a raging pandemic is pure stupidity.  It's no wonder they are all closing down again right away.  It's only going to get worse.

You don't care that Trump is all about enriching himself and his cronies and staying in power to avoid prison?

You don't care that Trump tried to boycott Goodyear Tire company today just because he saw on twitter that they have a policy that says: no political advertising inside the building, so people could not wear MAGA hats.  How does this add jobs and improve the economy?  They are the major supplier for tires for the US government and the US military.  They could go bankrupt and a lot of folks lose their jobs.

You don't care that Trump is a puppet of Putin and unwilling to call him out when Putin's intelligence service puts bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan?  Verified by US intelligence and it was in Trumps intelligence report.  If he was unaware, it was because he can't read or chooses not to.

You don't care when he orders our soldiers abandon our long-time allies, the Kurds in Syria and US soldiers end-up with rotten fruit being thrown at them as they leave town.  Kurd soldiers being slaughtered.  This is what happened.  How would you like to be one of those soldiers?

You don't care that Trump asks DHS to withhold FEMA disaster relief dollars from wildfire burned-out towns in California just because they are probably Dems?

You don't care that Trump cheats in every election, this time trying to interfere with voting by suing the states to keep them from using mail-in ballots, interfering with the Postal Service, putting up another candidate with GOP donors money meant for Trump, Kanye West, in order to dilute the Dems vote?  This is only the tip of the iceberg. He will do anything to win this election, illegal or otherwise.  He's done it before and got away with it thanks to Mitch McConnell and William Barr.

You need to read Michael Cohen's book when it comes out.  He was Trumps right-hand man for a decade or more and knows all of his crimes because he participated in them.  Knows a lot about what Trump did in the Whitehouse as well.  Trump is the most corrupt businessman in the US, not to mention the most corrupt President in US history.  What Nixon and Bill Clinton got impeached for was child's play compared to what Trump is doing. You evidently have no idea how serious this threat is.

Make sure to vote and vote early for Nov. election.  Request mail-in ballot RIGHT NOW.  Save our Democracy from Trumps Fascism!!

Meade LS 8" ACF on the way....
Posted 08/20/2020 12:18PM #7
If you want to preach that leftist media fueled pablum to the choir for real join us in the politics forum.....I have not watched fox news outside of the occasional video clip in a couple of years btw......

20" MidnighTelescopes f/5
8" f/16 Muffoletto Achro
Meade 6" AR6 f/8.0 Achro
Celestron C11
Parallax PI250 10" F/5 Newt
Vixen FL102S,NA140SS,R200SS
80mm Stellarvue Nighthawk with WO APOupgrade lens, 90mm f/16.67 Parallax Achro
LXD75/LX200, Mini-tower, GP-DX, CG5 ASGT, LXD650, GM-8, G11, GM-100, GM-150EX, GM-200 and a Gemini G40
4" portable AP convertable 44" or 70" pier
Stellarvue M7 Alt-Az, TSL7 Pier/Tripod
12.5" f/5 MidnighTelescopes DOB Swayze optics
Monroe GA
Posted 08/21/2020 12:38AM | Edited 08/21/2020 12:44AM #8
Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer
If you want to preach that leftist media fueled pablum to the choir for real join us in the politics forum.....I have not watched fox news outside of the occasional video clip in a couple of years btw......
Pablum?  This is 95% facts.

I hope you are not getting your news on Social Media.  This is flooded with propaganda from foreign countries.  Not reliable.

What Trump is doing is EXACTLY what happened in Germany in 1930's.  This is exactly what happened in Poland and Hungary, which both used to be Democratic.  There is only one playbook for dictators and authoritarians, and they all use the same tactics.

We just had Trumps Gestapo in Portland busting heads, shooting people and detaining people and now his ICESTAPO in Bend, Oregon where the residents tried to prevent them from taking two immigrants who had lived here for more than a decade.  Enough is enough.

Make sure to vote and vote early for Nov. election.  Request mail-in ballot RIGHT NOW.  Save our Democracy from Trumps Fascism!!

Meade LS 8" ACF on the way....
Posted 08/21/2020 01:27AM #9
Originally Posted by Steve Nugent

Pablum?  This is 95% facts.

I hope you are not getting your news on Social Media.  This is flooded with propaganda from foreign countries.  Not reliable.

What Trump is doing is EXACTLY what happened in Germany in 1930's.  This is exactly what happened in Poland and Hungary, which both used to be Democratic.  There is only one playbook for dictators and authoritarians, and they all use the same tactics.

We just had Trumps Gestapo in Portland busting heads, shooting people and detaining people and now his ICESTAPO in Bend, Oregon where the residents tried to prevent them from taking two immigrants who had lived here for more than a decade.  Enough is enough.


Attached Image:

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Darian R.