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Are we a Christian Nation?

Started by bschmall, 08/12/2012 03:57PM
Posted 08/12/2012 03:57PM Opening Post
Jeff Schweitzer blogging, from the Huffington Post:
(Paste simplistic label here)

Yesterday voters in Missouri passed by an overwhelming margin a bill to protect a threatened minority from an oppressive majority. Without this protection the minority might cease to exist. Yes, Missouri is taking the bold step of protecting that rarely seen and fragile species, the American Christian. Christians will, finally, no longer have to fear extinction with passage of Amendment 2 , better known as the "Right to Pray" bill. Proponents will sigh in relief now that it is once again safe to "pray briefly before a City Council meeting." Prayers from one faith? Invoking Jesus?
According to a 2008 survey from Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, more than 78% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. But sponsor of the bill feel compelled to "level of the playing field." It would seem that having a majority of nearly 80% is just not enough of an advantage. Even with a supermajority, the field needs to be leveled. This is not about religious freedom, it is about establishing absolute dominance, and repressing all religions other than Christianity. Only 4% are self-proclaimed non-believers (broken into the survey categories of atheists at 1.6% and agnostics at 2.4%). Yet in spite of these vast, massive, overwhelming, deeply embedded majorities, Christians often speak in the dialect of victimhood. The idea of Christians as modern victims while enjoying an overwhelming supermajority is difficult to swallow. From the perspective of a tiny 4% minority, any claim by a group representing 78% of the population that the views of a few are a threat to the many is simply surreal. A Christian complaining that Christianity or prayer are under attack when we submerged in Christianity's ubiquitous presence is like a fish in the Pacific Ocean complaining that there is not enough water.
The bill states that "no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs." So no physics (Big Bang), no biology (evolution), no geology (climate change),and no philosophy (secularists); we will be pumping out students from public schools who know nothing about anything other than the bible. My religious belief is that secular education is a sin; therefore according to this new law I can opt out of school completely.
As an aside, let us mention that Missouri right now is suffering a severe drought that threatens the state's entire agricultural sector. All but a few counties are disaster areas. Climate change is a liberal hoax, though, so good thing the legislature is focusing on the important issues.
Let's cut to the chase and through the nonsense. We all know that the Right to Pray bill is really an attempt to impose one religion on a secular society composed of diverse faiths, and to tear down the wall separating church and state. What our Christian friends so readily forget is that they pursue a course our founders fought hard to prevent. They could not have been more explicit about this point. John Adams, who said when signing the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Since he helped found the country, he would certainly know on what principles the nation was founded. Should we not take his word over some preacher's interpretation almost 300 years later? Missouri apparently thinks otherwise.
We do not need a Church of America: what the founding fathers knew in 1776 holds true in 2011. In spite of right wing Christian rhetoric to the contrary, that we are a secular nation cannot be denied. The facts supporting that conclusion are unambiguous, overwhelming, and indisputable. The Declaration of Independence in 1776, the Articles of Confederation of 1777, the U.S. Constitution (1787), and the Federalist Papers (1787-1788) are purely secular documents. Searching for references to god in any of these documents is akin to looking for Rick Perry at a gun control rally. Nowhere to be seen.

Our national obsession with God in politics is a recent phenomenon, and would seem completely alien to any of our founders. "In God We Trust" was first placed on United States coins in 1861 during the Civil War. Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove the words from our money in 1907 but was shouted down. Only in 1956 was that phrase adopted as the national motto by the 84th Congress. The clause "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted only in 1954 when President Eisenhower signed legislation to recognize "the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."
For the first 180 years of existence, the United States never included God in its motto, on its currency, or in any document creating the republic. We were born a secular nation and remained one for nearly two centuries. Missouri wants to negate that history in order impose one religion on all others, our founders' greatest fear. The religious right claims, incredibly, to know more about the intent of our founders than the founders themselves.
We really need to stop this ridiculous argument about being a Christian nation. We are not; we have never been.
Posted 08/12/2012 08:11PM #1
You are absolutely right. Plus, I know for a fact that Muslims live in Missouri because they were being investigated for sending satellite phones from St. Louis to Al Queda back in 2001. wink

[SIZE="Small"]------------
I have several telescopes, but none are semi-APO, APO, or in anyway valuable.
[/SIZE]
Posted 08/12/2012 11:42PM #2
Robert Schmall said:

Jeff Schweitzer blogging, from the Huffington Post:
(Paste simplistic label here)

Yesterday voters in Missouri passed by an overwhelming margin a bill to protect a threatened minority from an oppressive majority. Without this protection the minority might cease to exist. Yes, Missouri is taking the bold step of protecting that rarely seen and fragile species, the American Christian. Christians will, finally, no longer have to fear extinction with passage of Amendment 2 , better known as the "Right to Pray" bill. Proponents will sigh in relief now that it is once again safe to "pray briefly before a City Council meeting." Prayers from one faith? Invoking Jesus?
According to a 2008 survey from Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, more than 78% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. But sponsor of the bill feel compelled to "level of the playing field." It would seem that having a majority of nearly 80% is just not enough of an advantage. Even with a supermajority, the field needs to be leveled. This is not about religious freedom, it is about establishing absolute dominance, and repressing all religions other than Christianity. Only 4% are self-proclaimed non-believers (broken into the survey categories of atheists at 1.6% and agnostics at 2.4%). Yet in spite of these vast, massive, overwhelming, deeply embedded majorities, Christians often speak in the dialect of victimhood. The idea of Christians as modern victims while enjoying an overwhelming supermajority is difficult to swallow. From the perspective of a tiny 4% minority, any claim by a group representing 78% of the population that the views of a few are a threat to the many is simply surreal. A Christian complaining that Christianity or prayer are under attack when we submerged in Christianity's ubiquitous presence is like a fish in the Pacific Ocean complaining that there is not enough water.
The bill states that "no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs." So no physics (Big Bang), no biology (evolution), no geology (climate change),and no philosophy (secularists); we will be pumping out students from public schools who know nothing about anything other than the bible. My religious belief is that secular education is a sin; therefore according to this new law I can opt out of school completely.
As an aside, let us mention that Missouri right now is suffering a severe drought that threatens the state's entire agricultural sector. All but a few counties are disaster areas. Climate change is a liberal hoax, though, so good thing the legislature is focusing on the important issues.
Let's cut to the chase and through the nonsense. We all know that the Right to Pray bill is really an attempt to impose one religion on a secular society composed of diverse faiths, and to tear down the wall separating church and state. What our Christian friends so readily forget is that they pursue a course our founders fought hard to prevent. They could not have been more explicit about this point. John Adams, who said when signing the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Since he helped found the country, he would certainly know on what principles the nation was founded. Should we not take his word over some preacher's interpretation almost 300 years later? Missouri apparently thinks otherwise.
We do not need a Church of America: what the founding fathers knew in 1776 holds true in 2011. In spite of right wing Christian rhetoric to the contrary, that we are a secular nation cannot be denied. The facts supporting that conclusion are unambiguous, overwhelming, and indisputable. The Declaration of Independence in 1776, the Articles of Confederation of 1777, the U.S. Constitution (1787), and the Federalist Papers (1787-1788) are purely secular documents. Searching for references to god in any of these documents is akin to looking for Rick Perry at a gun control rally. Nowhere to be seen.

Our national obsession with God in politics is a recent phenomenon, and would seem completely alien to any of our founders. "In God We Trust" was first placed on United States coins in 1861 during the Civil War. Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove the words from our money in 1907 but was shouted down. Only in 1956 was that phrase adopted as the national motto by the 84th Congress. The clause "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted only in 1954 when President Eisenhower signed legislation to recognize "the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."
For the first 180 years of existence, the United States never included God in its motto, on its currency, or in any document creating the republic. We were born a secular nation and remained one for nearly two centuries. Missouri wants to negate that history in order impose one religion on all others, our founders' greatest fear. The religious right claims, incredibly, to know more about the intent of our founders than the founders themselves.
We really need to stop this ridiculous argument about being a Christian nation. We are not; we have never been.

No, we are not a Christain nation.

But that won't stop christain zealots from trying to hijack politics with their overbearing dogma about how EVERYONE (christain and non-christian) should live their life.







It is what it is...
Posted 08/13/2012 02:23PM #3
Robert Schmall said:

Jeff Schweitzer blogging, from the Huffington Post:
(Paste simplistic label here)

Yesterday voters in Missouri passed by an overwhelming margin a bill to protect a threatened minority from an oppressive majority. Without this protection the minority might cease to exist. Yes, Missouri is taking the bold step of protecting that rarely seen and fragile species, the American Christian. Christians will, finally, no longer have to fear extinction with passage of Amendment 2 , better known as the "Right to Pray" bill. Proponents will sigh in relief now that it is once again safe to "pray briefly before a City Council meeting." Prayers from one faith? Invoking Jesus?
According to a 2008 survey from Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, more than 78% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. But sponsor of the bill feel compelled to "level of the playing field." It would seem that having a majority of nearly 80% is just not enough of an advantage. Even with a supermajority, the field needs to be leveled. This is not about religious freedom, it is about establishing absolute dominance, and repressing all religions other than Christianity. Only 4% are self-proclaimed non-believers (broken into the survey categories of atheists at 1.6% and agnostics at 2.4%). Yet in spite of these vast, massive, overwhelming, deeply embedded majorities, Christians often speak in the dialect of victimhood. The idea of Christians as modern victims while enjoying an overwhelming supermajority is difficult to swallow. From the perspective of a tiny 4% minority, any claim by a group representing 78% of the population that the views of a few are a threat to the many is simply surreal. A Christian complaining that Christianity or prayer are under attack when we submerged in Christianity's ubiquitous presence is like a fish in the Pacific Ocean complaining that there is not enough water.
The bill states that "no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs." So no physics (Big Bang), no biology (evolution), no geology (climate change),and no philosophy (secularists); we will be pumping out students from public schools who know nothing about anything other than the bible. My religious belief is that secular education is a sin; therefore according to this new law I can opt out of school completely.
As an aside, let us mention that Missouri right now is suffering a severe drought that threatens the state's entire agricultural sector. All but a few counties are disaster areas. Climate change is a liberal hoax, though, so good thing the legislature is focusing on the important issues.
Let's cut to the chase and through the nonsense. We all know that the Right to Pray bill is really an attempt to impose one religion on a secular society composed of diverse faiths, and to tear down the wall separating church and state. What our Christian friends so readily forget is that they pursue a course our founders fought hard to prevent. They could not have been more explicit about this point. John Adams, who said when signing the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Since he helped found the country, he would certainly know on what principles the nation was founded. Should we not take his word over some preacher's interpretation almost 300 years later? Missouri apparently thinks otherwise.
We do not need a Church of America: what the founding fathers knew in 1776 holds true in 2011. In spite of right wing Christian rhetoric to the contrary, that we are a secular nation cannot be denied. The facts supporting that conclusion are unambiguous, overwhelming, and indisputable. The Declaration of Independence in 1776, the Articles of Confederation of 1777, the U.S. Constitution (1787), and the Federalist Papers (1787-1788) are purely secular documents. Searching for references to god in any of these documents is akin to looking for Rick Perry at a gun control rally. Nowhere to be seen.

Our national obsession with God in politics is a recent phenomenon, and would seem completely alien to any of our founders. "In God We Trust" was first placed on United States coins in 1861 during the Civil War. Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove the words from our money in 1907 but was shouted down. Only in 1956 was that phrase adopted as the national motto by the 84th Congress. The clause "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted only in 1954 when President Eisenhower signed legislation to recognize "the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."
For the first 180 years of existence, the United States never included God in its motto, on its currency, or in any document creating the republic. We were born a secular nation and remained one for nearly two centuries. Missouri wants to negate that history in order impose one religion on all others, our founders' greatest fear. The religious right claims, incredibly, to know more about the intent of our founders than the founders themselves.
We really need to stop this ridiculous argument about being a Christian nation. We are not; we have never been.

What a hoot. America is a Christian nation. This blogger must live under a rock! But heck, we've been down this road here many times before, so why bother. You and your bloggin' buddy can just go on living under a delusion.

Doug Matulis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I need something to put here, can you help? wink "
Posted 08/13/2012 03:23PM #4
Robert Schmall said:

Jeff Schweitzer blogging, from the Huffington Post:
(Paste simplistic label here)

Yesterday voters in Missouri passed by an overwhelming margin a bill to protect a threatened minority from an oppressive majority. Without this protection the minority might cease to exist. Yes, Missouri is taking the bold step of protecting that rarely seen and fragile species, the American Christian. Christians will, finally, no longer have to fear extinction with passage of Amendment 2 , better known as the "Right to Pray" bill. Proponents will sigh in relief now that it is once again safe to "pray briefly before a City Council meeting." Prayers from one faith? Invoking Jesus?
According to a 2008 survey from Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, more than 78% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. But sponsor of the bill feel compelled to "level of the playing field." It would seem that having a majority of nearly 80% is just not enough of an advantage. Even with a supermajority, the field needs to be leveled. This is not about religious freedom, it is about establishing absolute dominance, and repressing all religions other than Christianity. Only 4% are self-proclaimed non-believers (broken into the survey categories of atheists at 1.6% and agnostics at 2.4%). Yet in spite of these vast, massive, overwhelming, deeply embedded majorities, Christians often speak in the dialect of victimhood. The idea of Christians as modern victims while enjoying an overwhelming supermajority is difficult to swallow. From the perspective of a tiny 4% minority, any claim by a group representing 78% of the population that the views of a few are a threat to the many is simply surreal. A Christian complaining that Christianity or prayer are under attack when we submerged in Christianity's ubiquitous presence is like a fish in the Pacific Ocean complaining that there is not enough water.
The bill states that "no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs." So no physics (Big Bang), no biology (evolution), no geology (climate change),and no philosophy (secularists); we will be pumping out students from public schools who know nothing about anything other than the bible. My religious belief is that secular education is a sin; therefore according to this new law I can opt out of school completely.
As an aside, let us mention that Missouri right now is suffering a severe drought that threatens the state's entire agricultural sector. All but a few counties are disaster areas. Climate change is a liberal hoax, though, so good thing the legislature is focusing on the important issues.
Let's cut to the chase and through the nonsense. We all know that the Right to Pray bill is really an attempt to impose one religion on a secular society composed of diverse faiths, and to tear down the wall separating church and state. What our Christian friends so readily forget is that they pursue a course our founders fought hard to prevent. They could not have been more explicit about this point. John Adams, who said when signing the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Since he helped found the country, he would certainly know on what principles the nation was founded. Should we not take his word over some preacher's interpretation almost 300 years later? Missouri apparently thinks otherwise.
We do not need a Church of America: what the founding fathers knew in 1776 holds true in 2011. In spite of right wing Christian rhetoric to the contrary, that we are a secular nation cannot be denied. The facts supporting that conclusion are unambiguous, overwhelming, and indisputable. The Declaration of Independence in 1776, the Articles of Confederation of 1777, the U.S. Constitution (1787), and the Federalist Papers (1787-1788) are purely secular documents. Searching for references to god in any of these documents is akin to looking for Rick Perry at a gun control rally. Nowhere to be seen.

Our national obsession with God in politics is a recent phenomenon, and would seem completely alien to any of our founders. "In God We Trust" was first placed on United States coins in 1861 during the Civil War. Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove the words from our money in 1907 but was shouted down. Only in 1956 was that phrase adopted as the national motto by the 84th Congress. The clause "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted only in 1954 when President Eisenhower signed legislation to recognize "the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."
For the first 180 years of existence, the United States never included God in its motto, on its currency, or in any document creating the republic. We were born a secular nation and remained one for nearly two centuries. Missouri wants to negate that history in order impose one religion on all others, our founders' greatest fear. The religious right claims, incredibly, to know more about the intent of our founders than the founders themselves.
We really need to stop this ridiculous argument about being a Christian nation. We are not; we have never been.
Robert, The author of this piece must not have looked very hard to find a reference to God in the Declaration of Independence. In the first paragraph there is a reference to "the laws of nature and nature's God". In the second paragraph it states "all men are created equal, that they and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights".

The idea that each human life is sacred, i.e. created in the "image of God" is a Judeo-Christian tenet.

Darian R.