Freedom

Started by jameslbrown, 11/08/2010 05:39PM
Posted 11/08/2010 05:39PM Opening Post
Down in "Religion" Doug Matulis said:

It is amazing how the lies of satan can so twist the thinking of a man and so blind him from the truth. I see very little peace making in muslim nations, actually none. While all men are sinners, I would much rather live in a 'Christian' nation than one dominated by Islam. A quick survey of the nations of the world and I think you will see my point, not that any nation is perfect.

Doug:

What you meant to say is that you would much rather live in a secular representative democracy than a theocracy.

It has been demonstrated to you many many times that the US has a secular government that embraces religious tolerance along with other freedoms. We don't need to go into that again, even you must remember the countless other threads where we proved that the freedom we all enjoy arises from an entirely secular Constitution.

Obviously you appreciate this and like living here.

Genuine "Christian Nations" where the church wields real political authority went out of fashion about 300 years ago. Good thing too, because European Christian theocracy was as ruthless and bloodthirsty as any modern Muslim theocracy.

Clearly, the most backwards and repressive Islamic nations (for example Iran and Saudi Arabia)are also the most theocratic. The most modern and free Islamic nations are the least theocratic (e.g. Turkey and Indonesia). Do you see the pattern?

I'm curious why you always try to finesse the fountainhead of US liberty and freedom? It is surprising, because the secular guarantees of freedom are the only thing standing between the government and the extermination of your own church.

Is Satan behind your stubbornness? I really can't think of a better explanation.

Jim
Posted 11/08/2010 05:51PM #1
Jim Brown said:

Down in "Religion" Doug Matulis said:

It is amazing how the lies of satan can so twist the thinking of a man and so blind him from the truth. I see very little peace making in muslim nations, actually none. While all men are sinners, I would much rather live in a 'Christian' nation than one dominated by Islam. A quick survey of the nations of the world and I think you will see my point, not that any nation is perfect.

Doug:

What you meant to say is that you would much rather live in a secular representative democracy than a theocracy.

It has been demonstrated to you many many times that the US has a secular government that embraces religious tolerance along with other freedoms. We don't need to go into that again, even you must remember the countless other threads where we proved that the freedom we all enjoy arises from an entirely secular Constitution.

Obviously you appreciate this and like living here.

Genuine "Christian Nations" where the church wields real political authority went out of fashion about 300 years ago. Good thing too, because European Christian theocracy was as ruthless and bloodthirsty as any modern Muslim theocracy.

Clearly, the most backwards and repressive Islamic nations (for example Iran and Saudi Arabia)are also the most theocratic. The most modern and free Islamic nations are the least theocratic (e.g. Turkey and Indonesia). Do you see the pattern?

I'm curious why you always try to finesse the fountainhead of US liberty and freedom? It is surprising, because the secular guarantees of freedom are the only thing standing between the government and the extermination of your own church.

Is Satan behind your stubbornness? I really can't think of a better explanation.

Jim

Actually, your wrong. I meant to say I would rather live in a nation where Christianity is the dominate religion and the population is dominiately of people of the Christian faith. I would not want to live in a theocracy.

Doug Matulis
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Posted 11/08/2010 06:47PM #2
We live in a secular nation today because our ancestors knew first-hand how bad it was to live in a nation where a state religion held great sway and power over politics and the business of the people.

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." - James Madison
Posted 11/09/2010 02:28AM | Edited 11/09/2010 02:29AM #3
Where religion blurs with state and governance, I believe that we should not be hamstrung by the establishment clause. The establishment cause does not give a religion free reign to attack the United States and actively work to subvert our country. When a religion dabbles in matters that are reserved to the secular state, the United States should be free to adopt policies in regard to that religion as needed and even declare war on a religion just as if it were a state.

For example, if Catholics had a medieval-style Pope declare war on the United States and our interests, then it would be perfectly acceptable to expect all Catholics to immediately renounce Catholicism or face loss of citizenship and deportation or internment.

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