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Started by Rod Kaufman, 07/21/2021 11:11PM
Posted 07/22/2021 12:10PM #10
Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

Hmm, 13000 birds in 4 days by 5 shooters. That's what's quoted from the book. Since I'm not into shooting birds like an authority on the AM who it calls a ridiculous thing that I post that deserves no attention, I'll offer up an alternative, hypothetical situation. Let's say for the sake of argument, that it was 1300 birds shot down by 5 shooters in four days. Or even 300. Does the actions of the hunter for sport justify the carnage?

You never fail to rise to the bait do you Rod? smile

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Posted 07/22/2021 09:15PM | Edited 07/22/2021 09:15PM #11
Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer


You never fail to rise to the bait do you Rod? smile
You never fail to recognize reality do you Greg?...
https://sierrabrava.com/dove-shooting-world-record-toby-thomas
Posted 07/22/2021 09:43PM | Edited 07/22/2021 09:55PM #12
Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

I guess it's real after all. Here's the gun club touting records:
"Sierra Brava‘s exclusive Dove Hunting CLUB includes members on the 7000, 9000, 10,000, 12,000 and 14,000 categories respectively. (birds in 1 day). 

https://sierrabrava.com/dove-shooting-world-record-toby-thomas
That's apparently an Argentinian dove slaughtering club catering to sickos.  If the figures are true - they could be lying as well.  I can despise a man who takes joy from shooting 14,000 doves in a day (if he exists) while still acknowledging that hunting is an ethical and well regulated sport, in the US at least.  According to US Fish and Wildlife figures there are 15,200,000 licensed hunters in the United States.  Very few of them would consider it ethical to shoot thousands of doves in a day.

As is your style Rod, you (and the book) are gleefully indicting a huge swath of the population based upon the actions of a tiny minority.  I'll bet you a million dollars that in the last year there are more democrats who have put on Guy Fawkes masks, black hoods, or the like and tried to set a building on fire in the name of "justice" than there are hunters who have shot 1000s of birds in a day.  Does this mean that you support burning buildings?  I trust not.

Jim
Posted 07/22/2021 09:53PM | Edited 07/22/2021 10:04PM #13
Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

I guess it's real after all. Here's the gun club touting records:
"Sierra Brava‘s exclusive Dove Hunting CLUB includes members on the 7000, 9000, 10,000, 12,000 and 14,000 categories respectively. (birds in 1 day). 

https://sierrabrava.com/dove-shooting-world-record-toby-thomas
It is also complicated.  Googling around to try to learn something.  I am sure that I would not ever engage in a mass dove shoot, and this is not hunting as practiced today in the US.  But these doves are apparently pest animals that have robust increasing populations, even with the slaughter and even with wholesale poisoning.  So, an argument can be made that this is necessary culling, unless of course you would prefer to see Argentinian children starve...

"Eared doves provide the last big-bag shooting experience in the world. More than 23 million of these doves are thought to be in the fields around Córdoba in northern Argentina, and recent estimates put the figure in the 32-million range. Not uncommonly, a single gun can shoot 1000 birds in a day.

The scale of this wing-shooting recalls the numbers of passenger pigeons taken by North American gunners in the 1800s. That hunting pressure brought the passenger pigeon to rapid extinction, but the eared dove seems to be more resilient. Indeed, as with the passenger pigeons, eared dove populations in Argentina and Bolivia sometimes "darken the skies". Thus, populations on the sporting estates of Argentina seem to be holding their own, with the birds breeding four times a year and thriving on the vast areas of grain, some grown for their benefit, most of it on commercial farms, which are happy to support the dove shooting. Dozens of luxury lodges specialize in dove hunting, and the season extends all year long.[citation needed]

The eared doves around Córdoba do not migrate, and the enormous flocks are described as flying constantly between their roosting woods and the open fields. In the Córdoba region in Argentina, the eared doves are known as palomas doradas because of the shining feathers sometimes present in their plumage.

Further north, in Bolivia, around de Gran Chaco region, near the immense soy and sorghum plantations around Santa Cruz de la Sierra, the dove shooting is more seasonal, going from May to September, with large flocks arriving from Argentina to raid the grain crops. Locals attest that eared doves, which they call by the Guaraní name of totaky, were quite rare in the region just a few decades ago, a testimony not only to the resilience of the species, but also to the huge impact that the newly created large feeding grounds have on dove"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eared_dove
Posted 07/22/2021 10:01PM #14
Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer


Yep....when I saw the 13k claim I stopped right there.....and decided it was just another in a long line of ridiculous things Rod tends to post that deserve no attention.
With 5 shooters, over 4 days, the math belies how absolutely asinine the claim is.  At 2600 over 4 days, that's almost 700 shots per day, per person.

Is that even possible to accomplish??

Rod has always been math impaired, so you can't blame a guy like him for not being able to do 1st grade math.  

If each person took 1 shot every single minute for 12 straight hours each day, they would hit the 700 per day mark (and that's without even taking a lunch break!!)  tongue

Now then, to hit 13,000 birds, they would have to have a bullseye and hit everything they shot at when they shot those 2600 shots per shooter, per day.

Rod is your typical lefty, who never questions anything that is written by those of his ilk.

I wonder if he needs to use his fingers to add 3 and 2.  
Posted 07/22/2021 10:11PM #15
Originally Posted by James Brown

That's apparently an Argentinian dove slaughtering club catering to sickos.  If the figures are true - they could be lying as well.  I can despise a man who takes joy from shooting 14,000 doves in a day (if he exists) while still acknowledging that hunting is an ethical and well regulated sport, in the US at least.  According to US Fish and Wildlife figures there are 15,200,000 licensed hunters in the United States.  Very few of them would consider it ethical to shoot thousands of doves in a day.

As is your style Rod, you (and the book) are gleefully indicting a huge swath of the population based upon the actions of a tiny minority.  I'll bet you a million dollars that in the last year there are more democrats who have put on Guy Fawkes masks, black hoods, or the like and tried to set a building on fire in the name of "justice" than there are hunters who have shot 1000s of birds in a day.  Does this mean that you support burning buildings?  I trust not.

Jim
After some research, I see that my first off-the-cuff impression was off.  Mass dove shooting in Argentina is quite possibly necessary, environmentally beneficial and environmentally sustainable.  No less ethical than the alternative, which is wholesale poisoning.  This is not at all like "shooting a baboon just to see what it felt like to kill a stranger."

So, even though I would not participate and I doubt that this activity would be interesting to the hunters I know, I will withdraw my "sicko" characterization.  Jim

 
Posted 07/22/2021 10:14PM #16
Originally Posted by Richard Davis

With 5 shooters, over 4 days, the math belies how absolutely asinine the claim is.  At 2600 over 4 days, that's almost 700 shots per day, per person.

Is that even possible to accomplish??

Apparently it is - although it still could be BS.  These Argentinian shooting resorts probably exaggerate as much as anyone.


https://www.cordobadovehunting.com/how-to-survive-high-volume-bird-shooting-in-south-america-by-book-your-hunt.html
Posted 07/22/2021 10:30PM #17
Originally Posted by James Brown

After some research, I see that my first off-the-cuff impression was off.  Mass dove shooting in Argentina is quite possibly necessary, environmentally beneficial and environmentally sustainable.  No less ethical than the alternative, which is wholesale poisoning.  This is not at all like "shooting a baboon just to see what it felt like to kill a stranger."

So, even though I would not participate and I doubt that this activity would be interesting to the hunters I know, I will withdraw my "sicko" characterization.  Jim

 
I have my doubts about its "necessity". These doves reportedly produce more eggs and therefore offspring than their counterparts elsewhere in the world. If that's the case, then nature intended it to be that way for good reasons other than becoming mass casualties for voracious "hunters". Surely there are other ways of protecting the crops of an indigenous rancher. A couple of trained dogs working the fields scaring off the birds and/or noise makers and the like could probably serve as deterrents. I suspect the only thing that hasn't forced these doves to near extinction at this point is the safety and distance from the relative few who travel there to kill them for the pure enjoyment of doing so and not because they want to protect the crops of the locals...
Posted 07/23/2021 03:45AM #18
Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

I have my doubts about its "necessity". These doves reportedly produce more eggs and therefore offspring than their counterparts elsewhere in the world. If that's the case, then nature intended it to be that way for good reasons other than becoming mass casualties for voracious "hunters". Surely there are other ways of protecting the crops of an indigenous rancher. A couple of trained dogs working the fields scaring off the birds and/or noise makers and the like could probably serve as deterrents. I suspect the only thing that hasn't forced these doves to near extinction at this point is the safety and distance from the relative few who travel there to kill them for the pure enjoyment of doing so and not because they want to protect the crops of the locals...
Rod you should travel down there and tell them what they should do about all these doves and how to protect the crops if you are so worried about all this. I am sure they would be happy to hear from you!

Attached Image:

lesshare814's attachment for post 181513
Posted 07/23/2021 03:59AM #19
Originally Posted by Steven Moore

Rod you should travel down there and tell them what they should do about all these doves and how to protect the crops if you are so worried about all this. I am sure they would be happy to hear from you!
Probably not any happier than the villagers whose "problem" elephant was killed but was really any elephant the trophy hunter happened upon and shot...