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The Myth of American Greatness

Started by doublestargeezer, 02/09/2019 04:49PM
Posted 02/09/2019 04:49PM Opening Post
Food for thought and sensible discussion*.....

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-myth-of-american-greatness/?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Z92avCb0ZvKM8rQ9JBnvUru7mB0GKxUUuIQGgWVg7h8hUMEUBDKNEsUA#Echobox=1549661598

FWIW I don't believe anyone can pick out one country which is 'better' than the rest.  There are so many parameters and every country is good at some things and not at others.  

*Aw, who am I kidding?  Let the Flame Wars begin.

Dave
Posted 02/09/2019 06:42PM #1
You obviously didn't read the article didja?

A few quotes:

"Olympic medals...In per capita terms, however, it ranked 16th, one spot behind Canada"

" Nobel laureates....per capita basis, it ranks 16th"

" GDP....in per capita terms (PPP-adjusted), it ranked seventh."

"According to the OECD’s 2015 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, measuring the aptitude of 15-year olds in science, reading comprehension and math, out of 35 OECD countries, the U.S. placed 19th in science, 20th in reading and 31st in math."

"life expectancy, access to education and economic output....13th place"

"The U.S. maternal mortality rate, for instance, has doubled over the last two decades, placing it 46th in the world"

"American greatness is a delusion that shapes how the U.S. interacts with the rest of the world, seeking dominance and demanding more respect than it now deserves. Rather than chasing that imaginary figment, perhaps it would be better off conceding it is, at best, an equal among its peers, and a nation that has a lot to learn from the rest of us."

I clearly stated in my post that I do not believe anyone can make an argument that any one country is the 'best'..  There is a goodly armload of excellent nations - Western European nations galore, the Scandinavian nations, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and, yes, Canada.  I'm not coming from a 'jealous' point of view at all.  

To be fair, your point about the US military strength is spot-on.  Biggest, most powerful in the world by a good margin.....   But that isn't everything you could 'measure' a country's 'greatness' by....  

Dave
Posted 02/10/2019 12:34PM #2
Originally Posted by Richard Davis


To answer your question, I read the article front to back, not once but twice.

What stood out to me is that I wondered out loud, why in the world would some asshole post that article, and then come up with the header "The MYTH of American Greatness", which is nothing but a purposeful insult to the USA and its citizens?

I said to myself did someone in Canada wake up on the wrong side of the bed, look at his boyfriend, and tell him "I think I'll go TROLL A-Mart and insult the guys down in the United States by posting this article, and then I'll claim its a sensible read".

Which part was "sensible"?  Which part wasn't smug, insulting, derogatory, and rude?  

As I said, it takes a real asshole to come on, out of the blue and put up some crap like that. 

In all honesty that was the first possibility that came to my mind because I couldn't imagine myself actually starting out a Thread with the words "Canada sucks dick and here's the reason why"

But apparently you thought it was appropriate to do that and rile up those of us down here in the US.

Good for you.  

The article did in fact point out how Canada rides the coattails of the US, depending upon US to defend it militarily with our men and women and blood, because Canada feels like it can spend its coin on some other freebie to its citizens, while shirking its responsibility to pays for its own defense.  

Must be nice to be able to take your money and spend it in other places because your nation as a whole is too irresponsible to take care of its own military defenses, as it realizes BIG BROTHER USA just to the South will CERTAINLY spend ITS money to defend us from the Big bad world. 

It must be nice also to NOT have to pay the prices for your prescription drugs because the Drug companies down in the USA sock it to the American Citizen, and therefore can afford to charge far less to the neighbors up North, the Canadian ingrates as I might characterize them, IF you are an example of the typical Canuck in Canada.   

And let me tell you something about your nonsensical statistics.  

Some I recognize from the WHO, and they are so absurd that any reasoned, thinking individual will recognize how asinine their assertions are when they state things such as ""The U.S. maternal mortality rate, for instance, has doubled over the last two decades, placing it 46th in the world"

Now, I wouldn't expect a moron to understand how the WHO comes up with that innumeration of "46th", because it would take someone with a brain larger than a peanut to understand their criteria and just how asinine it is.  

Having said that, I won't bother going into an explanation to you of the asininity of the WHO's stats, which places the USA right behind CUBA in our health care ranking.  

That would be another area where a moron would become confused and not understand, so once again I won't bother explaining it to you.  

Suffice to say, my fleeting response to you is this "On Behalf of the United States and its 330 Million citizens, YOU and Canada are WELCOME to our protections and Our sacrifices and our world reknowned innovations".  wink
Except these moments of greatness are most common when Democrats are in control. You and your party hold us back. 



 

It is what it is...
Posted 02/10/2019 12:52PM #3
" I won't bother going into an explanation to you of the asininity of the WHO's stats, which places the USA right behind CUBA in our health care ranking. "

 Your argument is circular - America can't be not great because America is great.  QED

Of course you could provide data to gainsay the claim. Please do.
  

Data:  USA is 56th in the world for Infant mortality, tied with Serbia.  46th in maternal mortality, just behind Khazakstan....  

Dave 
Posted 02/10/2019 02:18PM #4
Originally Posted by David Cotterell
" I won't bother going into an explanation to you of the asininity of the WHO's stats, which places the USA right behind CUBA in our health care ranking. "

 Your argument is circular - America can't be not great because America is great.  QED

Of course you could provide data to gainsay the claim. Please do.
  

Data:  USA is 56th in the world for Infant mortality, tied with Serbia.  46th in maternal mortality, just behind Khazakstan....  

Dave 
Dave, If this is true, it'd be interesting to look at the demographics on this.

Darian R.
Posted 02/10/2019 04:14PM #5
Originally Posted by David Cotterell
" I won't bother going into an explanation to you of the asininity of the WHO's stats, which places the USA right behind CUBA in our health care ranking. "

 Your argument is circular - America can't be not great because America is great.  QED

Of course you could provide data to gainsay the claim. Please do.
  

Data:  USA is 56th in the world for Infant mortality, tied with Serbia.  46th in maternal mortality, just behind Khazakstan....  

Dave 
Dave,
This is explained with pages of reasons. Differing definitions, methods of gathering, and reasons other than quality of medical care. I've been through this before. Believe me we don't escape the us to seek better medical and infant mortality. 
Posted 02/11/2019 08:01AM #6
David,

It is true that enduring myths about America hold more sway over the general American public attitude about our greatness than facts. However, I don't think this is necessarily a problem that is unique to the USA. All countries have their national myths, and while they often suffer from a disconnect from reality, usually they do affirm some set of national values. American exceptionalism, for example, confirms that the United States is exceptional concerning its ideas of freedoms and liberty and reward for personal merit. I think that this sentiment is mostly true; however, it's also true that the United States committed genocides in cleansing lands of native Americans and even the New England colonies participated in slavery. These are hardly actions that are consonant with sentiments like all men are created equal and that the pursuit of life liberty and happiness is a fundamental human right. The story of European colonialism wiping out indigenous populations is not unique to the United States though. Even Canada has its sordid past in this regard. So, while American Greatness is probably a myth, it also has many elements that are true as well. Like many things, every generation has to reclaim greatness again; it's not something you win once, and then you are done.
Posted 02/11/2019 02:57PM #7
David what do I care what this actor Adnan R. Khan says!!  

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