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THE QUESTION - some of you shouldn't look - you have been warned

Started by AstroMart, 04/07/2018 10:51PM

Poll Results:


0 Total Votes
Posted 08/04/2008 03:44AM #40
If the Whole WMD thing was a lie then how can you explain the 80lbs. of yellowcake that was removed after the first Gulf War and just recently transferred out of Iraq to Canada? One thing to remember the Clinton administration first identified Iraq/Saddam as the largest and most dangerous threat in the region because of Hussein's incessant pursuit of Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological weapons. Also he did have WMD's he used them on the Kurds in Northern Iraq after we left in the first gulf war. All Western nations were convinced that Hussein had WMDS or was vigorously pursuing them. Any how we did not go into Iraq because of Saddams having or pursuing these dangerous weapons. We went in because he refused to allow inspections and missed several final dates to comply over a period of 12 years. The WMD reason was a story fabricated by the now leaders of the Democrat Party and pounded into the publics head by the media so that Congressional control would be placed in their hands by a forgetful and mostly uninterested American public.
Collin Smith said:

Blowing the cover of any CIA undercover agent is treason. Period. When one considers that her husband was merely reporting what is now a certainty, that the 'yellowcake' story from Nigeria was, in fact, a lie, but was even used by Bush in his State of the Union Address in 2003, well, you can call it "bad intelligence" but irrational conservative apologists have no problems identify the previous President's statements about Monica as "lies", so, given all the above, why not be honest and admit the same of this one. Of course, the consequences are VERY different, but that gets back to taking responsibility, calling a spade a spade.

Saddam Hussein is indeed dead, but by EVERY measure, the amount of oil pumped, the amount of electric power produced, etc, Iraq is in much worse shape. One thing Conservatives might remember, these are the very descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel. The Republican Party has done a great job of helping in death and destruction of these very people. To say nothing of women's rights in Iraq, which have plummeted since our invasion (see the first paragraph for just one of the lies that led to that).

It's funny how Republicans demand justice for those they deem wrong, but claim that, somehow, it can't be applied to them. They had good intentions. And the path to where is paved with those?
Posted 08/04/2008 04:01AM #41
"Socialism" in the political sense or system is a redistribution of wealth and all resources within a group (nation) to all citizens. This is known as egalitarianism and is a central function in Marx's Communist Bible. I don't know about you but I would not like any government to have that much control over all the wealth and resources. It has always lead down the road of tyranny! These so called successful European socialist nations are having alot more problems then you think or are aware of. There are moratoriums on their media outlets that do not let all of the news to be printed. "The Government that governs best governs least!"
Posted 08/04/2008 04:11AM #42
One of the first signs of the decline of a Representational Republic ( in the case of the U.S. with democratic overtures) is when it realizes that it can just vote to pay itself an unlimited amount of benefits administered by the government. Doing so transfers freedom/liberty to that government. How much more power are you willing to transfer to our government in the name of Socialism? Can't you sate your guilty conscience in a less destructive manner? Maybe you should have paid more attention to what the professors were trying to teach you about liberty and government in PoliSci 101!
Posted 08/04/2008 01:58PM #43
-If the Whole WMD thing was a lie then how can you explain the 80lbs. of yellowcake that was -removed after the first Gulf War and just recently transferred out of Iraq to Canada?

And to add to that, the chemical warheads found in the desert. They may have been old, but WMDs nonetheless. The stockpiles of some chemicals found in "spider holes", ingredients for chemical weapons. Who knows what else is still buried in the sand. Since those who know are never going to tell, and those who once knew are now gone, we'll only know if they are ever stumbled upon. And the Nuclear facility that was found just outside of Baghdad. There is proof that at least the chemical WMDs did indeed exist, and the persuit of nuclear was at hand.

-One thing to remember the Clinton administration first identified Iraq/Saddam as the -largest and most dangerous threat in the region because of Hussein's incessant pursuit of -Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological weapons.

Absolutely. Bill Clinton himself was convinced of it. Did "his" Intelligence community "lie" to him? Or did they "lie" to Bush? Or both? Or was it simply a reality that it was the truth, or what was perceived as the truth, all along by *both* of them?

-Also he did have WMD's he used them on the Kurds in Northern Iraq after we left in the -first gulf war. All Western nations were convinced that Hussein had WMDS or was vigorously -pursuing them.

Let's not forget the Iran-Iraq war where Saddam had used these same chemical weapons (WMDs) to kill thousands of Iranian Civilians. Yes, Men, Women and Children civilians were his target, not the Military of Iran. Yes, he had WMDs.

-We went in because he refused to allow inspections and missed several final dates to -comply over a period of 12 years.

And he was in bed with the U.N. which gave him plenty of time leading up to the war that was Sanctioned by U.N. Charter, to move his active WMD program to Syria. Thousands of trucks were seen VIA satellite imagery of the move. Facilities that existed one day, were gone the next. He was consistently kicking out the U.N. inspectors. Why? Maybe it was because they were getting too close to something? Then up goes the smokescreen.

-The WMD reason was a story fabricated by the now leaders of the Democrat Party and pounded -into the publics head by the media so that Congressional control would be placed in their -hands by a forgetful and mostly uninterested American public.

The media wouldn't even cover stories of what was found. Once FOX News had uncovered something, the rest of the media would have a "blip" of it and never actually cover anything, and never say anything again. No follow-ups whatsoever. I don't rely on one source for information, I look all around.
Many people forget about the U.N. scandals where they were helping Saddam circumvent the sanctions. The "Oil for Food" program was designed to feed the people of Iraq. But it was found the people never got any food. And the U.N. knew it all along.

-by a forgetful and mostly uninterested American public.

A sad reality indeed...
Posted 08/04/2008 09:05PM #44
What John has said is very constructive. He wasn't criticizing anyone. And he explained it quite well and concise. Your other diatribe isn't worth responding to since you feel I'm just some stupid dummy that has no concept of history of the Socialists, Nazis, Dictators, and Communists along with their failings, shortcomings, and eventual demises.
Rome was never conquered, it fell from within. And there are so many parallels between Rome, and the U.S.A., it's only a matter of time. Unless we get back to the Constitution as it was meant to be. Not picked apart by the politicians, lawyers, and bleeding-heart activists because they *think* they can do it better.

I believe you and I have a lot more in common than what has surfaced during this "conversation". I also believe you think you are smarter than I am. Well, perhaps you are in many ways. But the same can be said in reverse as well. I'll just leave it at that..

Richard Wright said:

If you have a point, please feel free to mention it. I specifically said I wasn't espousing socialist concepts- I was just clarifying for someone who apparently had no idea what socialism is, so at least we could talk about the subject at hand instead of stupid hyperbole about how anything someone dislikes must be like the nazis. If you have something constructive to say, let's hear it.

john marks said:

"Socialism" in the political sense or system is a redistribution of wealth and all resources within a group (nation) to all citizens. This is known as egalitarianism and is a central function in Marx's Communist Bible. I don't know about you but I would not like any government to have that much control over all the wealth and resources. It has always lead down the road of tyranny! These so called successful European socialist nations are having alot more problems then you think or are aware of. There are moratoriums on their media outlets that do not let all of the news to be printed. "The Government that governs best governs least!"
Posted 08/05/2008 01:12PM #45
-If you want a choice C, name it. That would be constructive.

(C) Tame the costs.

A pretty simple concept, eh?

-I do feel some of your posts are intended to be disruptive and abusive.

That was not my intention. If I have offended you, I apologize. But because of remarks like this..

-If you can't, then figure out how you are going to be happy with B

When someone tries to shove their ideals down my throat, I get offended. Wouldn't you? B is not the answer. A is definitely not either.

-In reply I have people claiming this is espousing communism, fascism, and totalitarianism.

You never stated your intention in an already (somewhat) heated political debate about an election, and the ideals behind it. Instead of clarifying yourself, you started to insult my misinterpretation of what you were getting at.

So, to tame the rising medical costs, start by finding the root causes.

Government waste. You'll see more as we go..

Lawyers and frivolous lawsuits suing not only doctors, by suing drug companies who's medicines are "approved" by, yep, you guessed it, The Government (FDA). But the fact that these lawsuits are even allowed, by, yep, the Government (Judicial Branch). What does that do you ask? Well, for one, it causes them, the doctors, to raise their fees to cover their skyrocketing "malpractice insurance". Don't blame the insurance companies there, it was the frivolous lawsuits allowed by the Judicial Branch of the Government to force the insurance companies unjustly to pay out. Are there warranted lawsuits? Sure there are, but it's the frivolous ones that erode the system.
The current Government-run medical assistance (welfare). Get the leeches off, and it'll be a whole lot better. Some of those leeches are high-paid Government workers. The lowly case workers, that do the real work, aren't taking home 6 figure incomes.
Paying "benefits" willie-nillie to anyone that has never paid into the "system", is also draining the system. Do some actually need it? Of course, but too many are abusing it. Stop allowing emergency room visits that are for just hangnails and minor cuts -n- bruises. Yes, I see it all the time. Stop the willie-nillie doctor visits just "because I can". But the emergency rooms, and the doctors aren't going to turn the leeches away. Why? Because they get paid for it with no questions asked. Reason? The Government doesn't care there are leeches. And this has to do with many whom use their "health insurance" for the very same reasons. The insurance companies have turned a blind eye to the "fees" that are charged them. They just pay blindly. Why? Well, we've come full circle back to the Government by having laws to "pay for services rendered" even though those "services" don't really exist. So why don't the insurance companies fight these frivolous lawsuits, and "bandwagon charges"? Because it's more expensive to pay a lawyer so they just pay. That paves the way for more to jump on the bandwagon and go for a ride. Again, a "problem" caused by the Judicial Branch of the Government.
Lawsuits against drug companies? When they lose money, they raise their prices to cover them. And if their insurance companies pay, they raise their prices to cut the losses.
Many drugs have some pretty serious side effects. But when your doctor prescribes them, and explain the risks involved, the lawsuits for "damages" should not be allowed since *you* have made a decision to "take the risk". More lawyer leeching allowed by, yep, the Government. Only in some instances, where there were "unknown" risks, or proven negligence, should these lawsuits be allowed. And "class action" lawsuits should be abolished. They lawyers are the only ones that laugh all the way to the bank.
Stop the bleeding! Stop all the leeching and there will be more than enough to go around.
Raising taxes to put in place yet another opportunity for leeches to feed from isn't going to solve anything. It will only serve to add to the confusion and create yet another bandwagon for the same underlying causes that exist in the "system" today.

I know, there will be arguments like "but these people need it". I'm not advocating reducing anything for those in need. Just cut the ones that do not need it. Flick the leeches off.
Posted 08/05/2008 04:44PM #46
I agree with a-lot of what Jeff has said here, in addition I would like to add that another reason the costs are sooo high is that at the end of the day, the patient or "consumer" is take out of the loop. What I mean by that is that the doctors/hospitals "negotiate" with your insurance company to decide what work to have done, and how much it "ought" to cost. And, then the "consumer" then is screwed because he gets stuck with higher premiums, or, the "taxpayer" is screwed because of higher costs.
this is in no way and endorsement of ANY crap foreign health care program. I am not interested in the mortality rates etc of Cuba or of any other country.
Posted 08/06/2008 01:44AM #47
[QUOTE]Jeffrey Counsil said:

-How about the anti-scientific halting of embryonic research to relieve human suffering?

Um, you would rather kill unborn children? Besides, it was the Government *funding* that was halted. Since then, there have been breakthroughs that do not require the murdering of children. That research was accomplished in the private sector.

There are more neurons in the brain of a housefly than in the embryos used for stem cell research. Harvesting stem cells is no more like killing babies than swatting a gnat. The real tragedy is the millions of children that have died or will die from diseases that may have been cured through the reseach. In fact, the entire "stem cell" debate was a clear example of this administrations greatest flaw: it is controlled by the religious right who still see the world through 1st century eyes.

-How about the complete politicization of the Justice Department on a scale not seen since -the Reconstruction Republicans?

You've lost me here. In case you have forgotten, CONGRESS has to approve any justices. CONGRESS is the body of elected "representatives" that control who is appointed.

I believe the original poster was referring the administrations policies of firing Assistant Attorney Generals for no other reasn than they did not share their political views or passing up graduates of Ivy League lawschools in favor of graduates from back-water, but "christian" schools.

Cheers.

Posted 08/06/2008 11:15AM #48
On top of Self Employment taxes of 15%, and State taxes of 5.3%, and Fed Taxes of upwards of 30-35% (probably more if "Obama Nation" gets in, with his "wealth tax" proposals), and probably more if J-Mac gets in with his "I'm pretending to be a conservative republican gets in)

But, lets not forget other tax-like things that uniquely apply to the small business person/self-employed:

Healthcare (it's deductible, but still incredibly expensive per month for a family coverage plan) - Net cost: $700/mo after factoring deduction - and that's for plans with a $5000 deductible. Basically that is $13,000 per year...

Property Taxes: mine are $10,000 per year...

Local Taxes, user fees, and Vehicular excise taxes...

My net tax burden is well over 50%

No, I am afraid the ONLY way to cut the deficit is to cut spending, but that is something neither Party has shown themselves capable of doing...

With the crowd running now, we WILL be worse in 4 years, I'm afraid...

Just remember that "Change" is a bipolar condition by definition - "Change for the worse", or "change for the better". So it is incorrect to state "no matter who gets in we will be better" - it's a logical fallacy.

Maybe I'm old and naive, (or old and curmudgeonly!), but I just can't see voting for someone who is demonstrably unqualified, lacks any experience, and has no actual principles whatsoever...

I'll leave you all to figure that one out!

In the meantime, Clear Enough Skies
(maybe with energy costs skyrocketing, there'll be less night-time lighting???)
Posted 08/06/2008 12:06PM #49
-There are more neurons in the brain of a housefly than in the embryos used for stem cell -research. Harvesting stem cells is no more like killing babies than swatting a gnat.

Hmmm... From what I understood at the time, only certain types of Human Brain Stem Cells are viable for research, not housefly or gnat..

-I believe the original poster was referring the administrations policies of firing Assistant -Attorney Generals for no other reasn than they did not share their political views or -passing up graduates of Ivy League lawschools in favor of graduates from back-water, but -"christian" schools.

The "firings" had very little to do with "political views" of the Bush administration, but more of not doing their jobs as prescribed by the laws of the country. They refused to uphold the laws they were sworn to uphold because of *their* political views. Laws that were in place even before Bush took office. They were trying to legislate from the bench. That's NOT what the Judicial Branch's role in Government is. They were derelict in their duties.
But then Bill Clinton must also be of the same cloth since he fired more than Bush! But nobody seems to care about that.. More like the Pot calling the Kettle, Black...