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Election

Started by dmatulis, 09/17/2010 01:10PM
Posted 09/17/2010 01:10PM | Edited 09/17/2010 01:26PM Opening Post
Well lets start a new thread to talk about a theological concept that the Bible address pretty extensively. It will give us a chance to test our new civility on the forum.

Topic: Election

Discussion: I believe the bible teaches that God is sovergn in all affairs of man. Examples... God raises up nations and allows them to fail according to His purposes in the working out of His will and plan for mankind. Likewise, God raises up leaders and brings them down. God allows what is perceived to be bad circumstances in ones life to either test their faith and perserverence or to get their attention. And, God chooses those whom He will save and those whom he will not. Apart from God's grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, man cannot and will not choose God, rather, by the power of the Holy Spirit working in one's heart, God draws those He chooses to Himself, saves them, and sanctifies them, and brings them to glory in Christ. This is modeled in scripture repeatedly in the OT and discussed extensivily by Jesus in the Gospels and Paul in his epistles. Care to discuss...?

Doug Matulis
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"I need something to put here, can you help? wink "
Posted 09/17/2010 01:53PM | Edited 09/17/2010 01:54PM #1
I believe the bible teaches that God is sovereign in all affairs of man. Examples... God raises up nations and allows them to fail according to His purposes in the working out of His will and plan for mankind. Likewise, God raises up leaders and brings them down.

I would say this is reasonable. For me the Book of Job even more clearly makes the point as Satan requests permission to do what he did.

God allows what is perceived to be bad circumstances in ones life to either test their faith and perseverance or to get their attention.

I believe the two reasons you state are also reasonable, however I feel there are more. Certainly there are enough places in scripture where it being attention getting or as a test are evident, but we also have example of it being done to demonstrate God’s glory or sovereignty, and also simply because it is in God’s plan for it to happen so even though it seems like a bad thing tactically, it is for the good strategically (if we were privy to that plan we would see).

And, God chooses those whom He will save and those whom he will not.

Obviously true, but I also believe His grace is there to save all and His desire is to save all. So in that context while God is obviously still doing the choosing, in the end it is our own decision and choice which will be the determining factor. So my belief is that God chooses and offers all salvation and those who He will in the end choose not to save will be because those He offered refused of their own free will and ego.

Apart from God's grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, man cannot and will not choose God, rather, by the power of the Holy Spirit working in one's heart, God draws those He chooses to Himself, saves them, and sanctifies them, and brings them to glory in Christ.

Not sure I’m on board with this. Perhaps true. With one being separated from the Holy Spirit all meaning for them is really lost, so then all actions will not any meaningful direction. So perhaps you are right as with the presence of the Holy Spirit it gives us an internal compass of sorts so at least we can see the direction the needle is point and then have our free will to walk that direction or not. Without that compass then really just wandering aimlessly and with a purpose that is apart from God. So yes, perhaps then can’t even choose God as would really have no concept of a God in the first place so no reason to chart a course towards something that does not even exist for you. Truly sad.