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Quick poll (Works or Grace)

Started by dmatulis, 08/31/2011 02:35PM
Posted 08/31/2011 02:35PM Opening Post
Just conducting a quick poll on salvation

Please answer the following question with either works of grace:

In biblical Christianity, is salvation by works or is salvation by grace through faith?

Doug Matulis
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"I need something to put here, can you help? wink "
Posted 08/31/2011 10:28PM #1
Doug, In all honesty, I really do not know how to answer this question. :S

[COLOR="Blue"]Darian Rachal[/COLOR]
Posted 09/01/2011 07:35AM #2
Doug Matulis said:

Just conducting a quick poll on salvation

Please answer the following question with either works of grace:

In biblical Christianity, is salvation by works or is salvation by grace through faith?

Works means I am savior to myself. Christ is identified as being savior in Christianity. Therefore grace.
Posted 09/01/2011 08:26AM | Edited 09/01/2011 08:27AM #3
Doug Matulis said:

Just conducting a quick poll on salvation

Please answer the following question with either works of grace:

In biblical Christianity, is salvation by works or is salvation by grace through faith?

The phrasing of your question is flawed Doug. The only intellectually honest answer is that the Bible says both things. The Bible doesn't necessarily say that both works and grace are necessary together, although that is one way of looking at it. No, in some places the Bible says works alone and in other places the Bible says grace.

I personally think the fuss made over this issue is silly. Do good works, pray for grace and hope for the best. That's about all anyone can do no matter how cock-sure his or her spiritual leaders might be that they have the correct answer.

I cribbed the following quotes many years ago. You've seen it before, more than once. wink

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="Large"]Works: [/SIZE]

Matthew 5:48 (part of the Expounding of the Law within the Sermon on the Mount): "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (compare Imitatio dei)

Matthew 7:21 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 7:24-27 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

Matthew 12:36-37: "I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."

Matthew 19:17: ""Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.""

Matthew 24:10-20 (part of the Olivet discourse): "Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 25:31-46 (part of The Sheep and the Goats): "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matthew 28:19-20a (part of the Great Commission): "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Luke 8:21: " But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

Luke 10:25-28: "On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live.""

John 5:29: "And will come out--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."

Romans 2:6,7; 13: "For he will repay according to each one's deeds. To those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; for it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified."

Romans 2:16: "on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all."

Galatians 6:7b-9: "A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

1 Corinthians 7: 19 "Circumcision means nothing and uncircumicsion means nothing; what matters is keeping God's commandments"

1 Corinthians 10:12: "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

1 Corinthians 13:2-3: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

1 Corinthians 13:13: "And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil."

Philippians 2: 12b-13 "work out your salvation with fear and trembling, For God is one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work."

1 Timothy 4:16 "Attend to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in both tasks, for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you"

James 1:22: "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says."

James 2 (excerpts): "... What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ... Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified,

James 2:24: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Phillipians 2:12-13: "... work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work."

1 Peter 1:17: "Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning."

1 John 2:3-7: "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard."

Revelation 14:12-13: "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, ‘Write this: Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labours, for their deeds follow them.’

Revelation 20:13: "All the dead were judged according to their deeds."

Revelation 22:12: "Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds."



[SIZE="Large"]Faith: [/SIZE]

Psalms 84:12: "O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee."

Isaiah 64:6: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

2 Chronicles 20:20: "...Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper."

Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?' And then will I profess unto them, I never knew yougrinepart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Luke 5:20:"And when he saw their faith, he said unto them, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee."

Luke 18:10-14:"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God."

Luke 23:40-43: "But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." "

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

John 6:28-29: "Then they said unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.'"

John 5:24: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

John 6:40: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son,and believeth on him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:47: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

Acts 10:43: "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."

John 14:6: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me."
Acts 26:18: "...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me..."

Romans 1:17-18: "Therefore the just shall live by faith. The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness."

Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Romans 4:5: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Romans 5:1: "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Romans 10:9: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Romans 14:23: "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

Corinthians 1:21 "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

Galatians 2:16: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Galatians 2:21: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

Galatians 3:1-3; 9-14; 21-25: "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? ... So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the Scripture harh concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

Galatians 5:4,5: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."

Ephesians 1:13-14: "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Philippians 3:9: "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith."

Galatians 3:8: "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith..."

1 Timothy 1:16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Titus 3:5: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." [/COLOR]
Posted 09/01/2011 10:57AM #4
'Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."'

My answer. We are saved by Grace through Faith, as Saint Paul says in Ephesians 2:8&9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Where do works fit in? It's at least one reason for GOD to save us, to give Him glory and honor by the works we do for Him, as St. Paul says in Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Mark Costello
Matthews, NC, USA

"I hear you're mechanically inclined. Did you ever do anything with perpetual motion?"

"Yeah, I nearly had it a couple of times."
Posted 09/01/2011 02:53PM | Edited 09/01/2011 03:02PM #5
Doug Matulis said:

Just conducting a quick poll on salvation

Please answer the following question with either works of grace:

In biblical Christianity, is salvation by works or is salvation by grace through faith?

[COLOR="Blue"]Hi Doug,
This is more on the non-Biblical side, but I don't believe God grants grace at all. It would be "works" for me.

A state of grace is often referred to as if reaching a goal. That would be like me saying; My project has reached a high level of safety, based on nothing bad happening all year. Sitting here typing, I have no certainty a guy isn't dancing at the edge of the roof just behind me. This implies "I'm done now." Yet there could well be more to do.

To ignor the possibility for further evaluation, improvement and growth, would be to fall short of the dilligence we owe ourselves.

There's my two cents,
Steve
8) [/COLOR]
Posted 09/01/2011 02:58PM #6
Doug Matulis said:

Just conducting a quick poll on salvation

Please answer the following question with either works of grace:

In biblical Christianity, is salvation by works or is salvation by grace through faith?

Results so far
Grace: 3
Works: 1
Others: 1


Doug Matulis
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"I need something to put here, can you help? wink "
Posted 09/01/2011 04:23PM #7
If you have really fallen down badly on the WORKS side, isn't your lack of sincerity going to trip you up on the GRACE side?
Posted 09/14/2011 10:07AM #8
Grace.

Romans 11:5
"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."

Works, and even faith for that matter, can only be a result of grace. Eph 2:8-10, as Mark already quoted.