Russ Carroll said:Russ Carroll said:Jim Brown said:Russ Carroll said:Jim Brown said:
What is to keep the Tibetan Russ and the US Russ from both being right?
The actual truth.
Let me demonstrate my thinking with an example. Let's say the question on the table is "Does Indianapolis exist?"
In that case there is, without getting into some advanced physics, and using normal language one true answer. Yes.
If the question at hand is "What is the quickest way to drive to Indianapolis?" the answer is not so uniform. For me the answer is drive East on I-70. For Clyde the answer is drive West on I-70. For many of us a true answer is going to be different depending on our starting place.
If the question is phrased as "What is the one and only way to drive a car to Indianapolis?" there is no answer, that is an invalid question.
Consider the question presented to Tibetan Russ and U.S. Russ. "What is the best path for you to God?" I think this question is a lot more like "What is the quickest way to drive to Indy?" than it is like the other two examples.
I think you have described universalism to a T, which I would highly prefer over Orthodox Christianity. This description just isn't consistent with what I know about the Bible.
I have an alternate answer after thinking about this for a bit. I fully agree with what I posted above. However, if you substitute the words "Jesus Christ" for "Indianapolis", i would say this is an excellent description of Christianity.
In my opinion, you can get an awful lot wrong theologically as a Christian, but if you are, at some level, truly heading towards Christ and trust Him more than yourself, then your path will lead you to Heaven.
I have a close relative that "does not believe good people are going to hell", "believes multiple paths to God probably exists", has belonged to "apostate" churches in the past, and holds several other ideas that are not part of Christian orthodoxy including outright error; however, when you take a combination of his actions, the fruit of his life, and his clear an unashamed admission that the real Jesus Christ of the Bible is his Lord, then I would tell you that he is trusting Christ with his soul. There is a wonderful parable of Jesus about this subject that is near and dear to my heart.
No one knows for certain except God who is and who isn't a "real" Christian, and I have a much broader view today in the sense that doctrinally messed-up individuals can be Christians, but ironically my view is narrowing in the sense that talk is cheap and shoe leather is a far better indicator of ones actual spiritual condition.
My provocative title for this thread was not a joke. There are also no Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and the like in heaven as well. Heaven is filled with people who are followers of Jesus Christ.
There are no Calvinists or Baptists in heavenStarted by RussCarroll, 03/26/2011 05:06PM
Posted 03/26/2011 05:06PM Opening Post
Posted 04/06/2011 03:48PM | Edited 04/06/2011 04:03PM #1
Russ Carroll said:
...if you are, at some level, heading towards Christ and trust Him more than yourself, then your path will lead you to Heaven...
There are also no Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and the like in heaven as well. Heaven is filled with people who are followers of Jesus Christ.
I am glad that your view of Christianity is non-exclusive enough to envision sincere Christians of all stripes in heaven. But your post stops well before a critical point.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but:
It would still seem, according to your interpretation of the Bible that noble, honest, and charitable men who died Muslim, Jew or otherwise non-Christian are still damned. Some of these folks have surely died after leading a "Christ-like" life of selflessness and love for their fellow man, yet according to you they presently burn in hell because they had the misfortune to be born outside of the realm of Christian influence. I am talking about noble "Christ-like" Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics, Atheists etc. Maybe the non-Christian never heard of Jesus or more likely they invested their heart and soul into honorable worship according to the creed that they were born with.
God is not so petty and arbitrary as to automatically damn "Christ-like" non-Christians who never had a legitimate chance at Christianity or who worshiped according to an alternative creed.
- Rod Mollise
- DiscMounts, Inc.
- New Mexico Skies, Inc
- Matsumoto Company
- Astromart Customer Service
- SkyShed Observatories
- GetLeadsFast, LLC
- Astronomers Paradise
- Anacortes Telescope
- DayStar Filters, LLC
- TeleVue Optics
- Optique Unterlinden (Europe)
- Anacortes Telescope Web Guy
View all sponsors