If you use the following syntax in google:
astromart site:cloudynights.com
you get a search of cloudynights. Using "astromart" and "amart" I got about 15,000 hits. In short, even in the largest discussion forum, which is trying to launch its own market, you've got 15,000 references to the 'mart. I don't think there's that many references to CN's OWN sales forum.
Searching Yahoo is harder. Most of the groups are closed to google (for reasons that one could discuss separately). I only got 1500 hits using the syntax
astromart site:groups.yahoo.com
BUT, I got about 1100 hits on the Losmandy group using the group's search engine, and since that group is only sort of a "run of the mill large specialized group" we can imagine at least as many on Meade, Nexstar, and so on. So I would not be surprised to see astromart references roughly 2x to 3x what you see on CN.
Searching on the Yahoo answers site, I got several hundred hits from people referring novices to astromart. Here's an example:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090801040155AAwh7a1
Notice how people just work Astromart into the discussion. It is like any other HUGE part of the scene: triple A for car owners, Starbux for coffee, Eastern Mountain Sports for camping equipment, and so on. Astromart is a part of the landscape.
With tens of thousands of posts out there in the tribal zones and obscure provinces, it is no wonder that our fearless leader occasionally comes in for some nasty attacks. I suspect that every major publisher gets some pretty nasty feedback too. NYT, WSJ, whatever.
So I hope Herb does not use google to go dig up the unfortunate references because he will surely find them. But I think that the big picture here is that when you have a prominent position you come in for some hits.
I know, too, that Astromart is 100x more prestigious than membership in a Yahoo group. If I get banned from a Yahoo group (as has happened once or twice) I wouldn't think much of it (although some are very dear to my heart). If I were to get banned from Astromart that would be a tough blow to take. I wouldn't hesitate to grovel or pay $12 to get back in!!!! I have had to ban half a dozen people over the years but have never yet seen them run around to other groups complaining about King Jerk GN. It's not because they like me. It's just that the prestige of the venue is much, much less.
The prestige of the venue is part of what makes people upset when they lose Astromart standing. It stings. That's why they go out and raise a ruckus in the tribal zone. Loss of membership stings because of Astromart's pre-eminence. It is pre-eminent because it is well managed. It is well managed because of the person who runs it.
Anyhow, out there in the Yahoo tribal zone, we moderators picks and chooses our battles; two or three posts of discontent are a minor scuffle; ten posts starts to get looked at real closely, and after that, in most places, there's an intervention. I've seen it happen in more than one place. It's a managed anarchy. But the basic point is that Astromart is huge to the hobby and our fearless leader, our editor in chief, our cop on the beat, our esteemed publisher, should not feel obliged to leave behind a teaming metropolis to ride out to dry Gulch to gun down Willy and the Malcontents. Waste of time, and a lot of folks are already on it. A lot of people trash-talk S&T, too, by the way, but I think the editors don't lose much energy on it.
And I would mention that according to a survey I ran 20% of the people in this hobby spend about 50% of the money. And those are the ones who will be spending here and on Anacortes, not so many of the Zhumell plossl kit types. And of course ALMOST anyone who is anyone on a yahoo group is also a member of the 'mart.
Thanks for your efforts, Herb, and remember that the bottom line is that Astomart is so embedded in the lives of many people that they don't think about it any more than they think about their water heaters. They only remember them when they don't work. When was the last time you sent an appreciative note to your water heater manufacturer???!! Because you're so successful, you're going to get more gripes than compliments. It shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is.
regards
Greg N
astromart site:cloudynights.com
you get a search of cloudynights. Using "astromart" and "amart" I got about 15,000 hits. In short, even in the largest discussion forum, which is trying to launch its own market, you've got 15,000 references to the 'mart. I don't think there's that many references to CN's OWN sales forum.
Searching Yahoo is harder. Most of the groups are closed to google (for reasons that one could discuss separately). I only got 1500 hits using the syntax
astromart site:groups.yahoo.com
BUT, I got about 1100 hits on the Losmandy group using the group's search engine, and since that group is only sort of a "run of the mill large specialized group" we can imagine at least as many on Meade, Nexstar, and so on. So I would not be surprised to see astromart references roughly 2x to 3x what you see on CN.
Searching on the Yahoo answers site, I got several hundred hits from people referring novices to astromart. Here's an example:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090801040155AAwh7a1
Notice how people just work Astromart into the discussion. It is like any other HUGE part of the scene: triple A for car owners, Starbux for coffee, Eastern Mountain Sports for camping equipment, and so on. Astromart is a part of the landscape.
With tens of thousands of posts out there in the tribal zones and obscure provinces, it is no wonder that our fearless leader occasionally comes in for some nasty attacks. I suspect that every major publisher gets some pretty nasty feedback too. NYT, WSJ, whatever.
So I hope Herb does not use google to go dig up the unfortunate references because he will surely find them. But I think that the big picture here is that when you have a prominent position you come in for some hits.
I know, too, that Astromart is 100x more prestigious than membership in a Yahoo group. If I get banned from a Yahoo group (as has happened once or twice) I wouldn't think much of it (although some are very dear to my heart). If I were to get banned from Astromart that would be a tough blow to take. I wouldn't hesitate to grovel or pay $12 to get back in!!!! I have had to ban half a dozen people over the years but have never yet seen them run around to other groups complaining about King Jerk GN. It's not because they like me. It's just that the prestige of the venue is much, much less.
The prestige of the venue is part of what makes people upset when they lose Astromart standing. It stings. That's why they go out and raise a ruckus in the tribal zone. Loss of membership stings because of Astromart's pre-eminence. It is pre-eminent because it is well managed. It is well managed because of the person who runs it.
Anyhow, out there in the Yahoo tribal zone, we moderators picks and chooses our battles; two or three posts of discontent are a minor scuffle; ten posts starts to get looked at real closely, and after that, in most places, there's an intervention. I've seen it happen in more than one place. It's a managed anarchy. But the basic point is that Astromart is huge to the hobby and our fearless leader, our editor in chief, our cop on the beat, our esteemed publisher, should not feel obliged to leave behind a teaming metropolis to ride out to dry Gulch to gun down Willy and the Malcontents. Waste of time, and a lot of folks are already on it. A lot of people trash-talk S&T, too, by the way, but I think the editors don't lose much energy on it.
And I would mention that according to a survey I ran 20% of the people in this hobby spend about 50% of the money. And those are the ones who will be spending here and on Anacortes, not so many of the Zhumell plossl kit types. And of course ALMOST anyone who is anyone on a yahoo group is also a member of the 'mart.
Thanks for your efforts, Herb, and remember that the bottom line is that Astomart is so embedded in the lives of many people that they don't think about it any more than they think about their water heaters. They only remember them when they don't work. When was the last time you sent an appreciative note to your water heater manufacturer???!! Because you're so successful, you're going to get more gripes than compliments. It shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is.
regards
Greg N
"Scope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no scope." --Freewheelin' Franklin
