low cost binoviewers for high power viewing?

Recently there has been a lot of interest and information on using binoviewers. Can you actually see more with two eyes? Some premium BV users have said that when using larger aperture scopes they can see MORE than when using a single eyepiece. Some have said they can see as much at 200X with a BV as they can at 300X with a single eyepiece? What about the current selection of low cost BVs, are they useful for detailed observing? University Optics, for example, offers their BV with Tak colimation and matched orthoscopics. Is there a place for these BVs other than for a low power 3D effect?

Hello Andrew
I tried BV and found it just wasn't for me. I had a Denk Premium Universal with Power Switch set up and used TV32mm P, 13T6 and 5T6 Naglers in a Televue NP101. While the 3d effect views of the moon and planets was pretty cool, the light loss far out weighed the coolness. Mind you this is in a 4" refractor albeit a very good one. The light loss with BV compared to cyclops was very noticable and detail went bye bye. I tried it in a 11" starmaster and the light loss was not a noticable but the weight became an issue. The Denk was heavy and made the scope top heavy. This could have been solved. The expense of the BV and twice the price for eyepieces was a bit more than I could justify for use in only one of my scopes. All in all I was unimpressed for the expense and sold the BV and extra eyepieces and have not regreted the decision. I think BVing is a personal thing and some like it and some don't.
Hope this helps
Buck

Andrew Amundrud said:

Recently there has been a lot of interest and information on using binoviewers. Can you actually see more with two eyes? Some premium BV users have said that when using larger aperture scopes they can see MORE than when using a single eyepiece. Some have said they can see as much at 200X with a BV as they can at 300X with a single eyepiece? What about the current selection of low cost BVs, are they useful for detailed observing? University Optics, for example, offers their BV with Tak colimation and matched orthoscopics. Is there a place for these BVs other than for a low power 3D effect?

I've tested some el cheapos, and they do fairly well.

HOWSOMEEVER...most of 'em offer some aggravations. Unless the eyepiece holders are self centering, forget it. Setscrews DON'T MAKE IT. With short barreled eyepieces, especially, setscrews tend to tilt an eyepiece, meaning you'll have trouble merging images.

Also, while the cheapos can do a pretty good job with planets, they fall down on the deep sky. The small clear aperture most of 'em posess means you will get severe vignetting with longer focal length eyepieces.

They CAN give you a TASTE of binoviewing at a low price, but you will soon want More Better Gooder, and will have to buy again. The Basic Denkmeier binoviewer is $499.00, and IMHO that is the way to go.

As for what a binoviewer can do, there is far more to the game than the pseudo 3-D effect. Yes, I can see more with the Denk than I can "Cyclops style" on the planets AND the deep sky.

Matched Orthoscopics? What I like is a pair of 19mm Pans.

I frequently binoview through both refractors and scts. I find binoviewing very beneficial for lunar and planetary observing where the slight light loss is inconsequential. I find that if I use the same eyepiece in mono mode then switch to a pair in the binoviewer, the object, to my brain anyway, appears larger. I always binoview when doing high power planetary viewing. There is also the issue of eye fatigue. I can sit and stare through a binoviewer for an hour observing a planet searching out slight details with little or no breaks. When in Cyclops mode I frequently have to stop and rest my eyes. For DSOs you do give up noticeably more light and resulting detail, so for serious study I usually go mono. But for just some relaxed casual scanning about the heavens I find a pair of 24mm panoptics in my 14” LX200 to be a wonderful experience. I have had a number of people at star parties stop by to look through my scope with the bver in place and one of the first comments they make is the 3D effect they perceive. Check out Saturn sometime through one and you will know what they are talking about. I would recommend you start with one of the less expensive binoviewers that DO have the self centering eyepiece holders. Getting you eyes accustomed to merging the dual images can be very easy for some and very difficult for others and if the eyepieces are slightly out of alignment, it can make it much worse. Even if you get them to merge, you eyes will fatigue quickly trying to hold them together.

I think there is a lot of personal variation with
regards to binos. For me I do not see more detail,
but the detail is more easily seen. If I use
the bino I will pickup some faint planet detail
fairly quickly, and then if I go back to mono it
takes longer but I can still see the same detail.
There seems to be some noise and error cancellation
in the brain when both eyes are used.

Regarding merging of images, etc. -- this will be
easier if you use low power eyepieces, and put a
barlow lens ahead of the binoviewer. Then the
alignment within the bino and centering of the
eyepieces is much less critical. Also the quality
of the bino optics is less critical, since the
light cone inside the bino is much smaller.
For example, using 25mm eyepieces in the bino
with a 3x or 4x barlow (effective) between the
bino and scope. If you just put 6mm or 8mm
eyepieces in the bino, it will be very demanding
of the centering and bino optics.

Thankyou all for commenting on the more practical considerations for purchasing and using low cost binoviewers. I really appreciate these forums.

Are there any reviews of the current UO bino? The appeal is that they are offered with orthoscopics, but the binos don't appear to have self centering collets. My goal is planetary viewing requiring a small fov. I have a 10"/f4.7 dob with equatorial platform.
Magnification will be done ahead of the bino using barlows placing less demand on the collimation of the bino. I was thinking of using only one pair of eyepieces, maybe 18mm. If not interchanging eyepieces, can I get by without self centering collets? Will this unit, used in this way, be satisfactory for magnifications of say 160-200x? I know the Denk Standard may provide the best of all worlds, but would the UO with orthos be a good start? I thank you again for your experience.