Telescope or Mount?

Folks,

I've had the chance to look through some really cheap telescopes growing up, and was never really impressed...but then I took an astronomy course here at the U of Iowa a couple of semesters ago and went out with my instructor to do some observing through an Orion 4 inch scope. I never new an amateur telescope could provide views of the heavens which were so mind bogglingly beautiful! Well, I flipped a house I've been working on and have some cash to burn. I'm the kind of person who takes up a new hobby every few years and dives into it, and won't let go. Cycling, lifting, orcharding (160 trees) and vineyarding (200)vines are some of my hobbies. I need something to do at night now...

Right off the bat, would anyone suggest using the Denkmeier power/filter switch diagonal? If not, I'll probably go with a 2'' WO. If the power switch is not recommended, then I will put together three quality eyepieces and work from there.

The biggest thing I'm struggling with is the mount and telescope choice. I can't decide whether to get the more expensive, larger aperture TMB 130 SS and a less expensive mount like the Losmandy G-11 or to get a less expensive, smaller aperture scope like the WO FLT 110 or WO ZN 110 or even the TAK Sky 90 and put it on a TAK EM-200 TEMMA-2. I've only read good things about the TAK mount but the Losmandy seems to get reviews which always say things like, "if it had this...it looks too cluttered with all those wires...you need to upgrade to aluminum drive covers...the weights look cheesy..."

I'm sure the Losmandy is of utmost quality for its price point, but I don't know if I want to experience those things as it sounds the TAK is just a step above...but with a price to pay...which sacrifices light gathering ability on the scope I would initially buy.

I guess what I'm saying is that it seems like it would be more pleasing to have a mount I won't question and will gracefully carry any of the fine optics I choose to mount on it over the years...

Any suggestions?

Clear skies! -but an inch of rain every week or so would be perfect for the crops!

Adam

p.s. I've enjoyed reading all the wonderful adventures many of you are having under the night sky and thank you for your time and wisdom.

Hmmm. Well, there are some wires. The thing is, most of the wires I have I would have on any mount. Most of what you see dangling are the power supply, running from the battery up to the side of the mount, and dew control technology for the tube; and the Argo Navis computer. A different type of mount would deal with some of these wires but by no means all of them. For example the dew control runs a wire from the power supply to the control box, and from there I have two wires going up to the tube; a third wire is going down into the eyepiece box where I also run a heater.

A CGE would relieve me of the Argo Navis (and its wires) but so would the Gemini unit for the G11. It would remove two wires from the G11 control panel, if memory serves, the ones you plug into the RA and Dec motors. That's about it. It would be nice not to have wires but the main thing is most of them are not due to the mount. I'll take the wires and push-to over go-to because even though I have wires I have less system complexity and higher gearing in the steppers. For me that works out better.

I also have an AP900QMD era. You don't hear anyone accusing AP900s of having too many wires but they have the same as a G11. You didn't say if you want to take pictures or not. But at any rate for a 5 inch refractor you should do fine with a G11 even if you DO photography.

Incidentally after I bought the AP900 I kept the G11. I have it on a wood tripod (berlebach) and use my 5 inch refractor on it. So I think the wire thing with G11s is overblown. A long thread on Yahoo! Losmandy has been unfolding on just this topic so you're welcome to join and read the archives.

Greg N

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Let me add that I don't know anyone who disputes that the Tak mounts are a step above the Losmandy. I'm not sure that they cure the wire problems but I'll let someone else speak to that. Speaking for myself, I would still need a power supply cord and all the wires that go with the various active heating systems.

Tak uses sand cast aluminum, Losmandy uses CNC. I can't speak to the innards of the Tak, but its the use of steel on the main axes of the G11 makes it very heavy, in proportion to mounts such as the AP900.

You haven't even said why you want a German equatorial. You could get a very nice alt-azimuth mount and a 4" refractor and get your feet wet. If you want tracking, well, then, A german equatorial is nice (I wouldn't use anything else). If you do your own machining or have a friend who can help you make an adapter, a wood tripod is a wonderful combo with the G11.

The conundrum you pose is an interesting one because I always say people underestimate the importance of the mount. And certainly a Tak mount (or an AP) is saying you refuse to underestimate the need for a good mount. But the thing is I HAVE an AP900 but it doesn't change that the G11 is a GREAT mount for my five inch f/8 refractor.

In fact that's what I would tell you to do. Get a Tak FS128 on the used market for around $3.2k and get the Tak mount. I'm not sure why you want a refractor anyhow but I like mine (in addition to the SCT). But being who I am I would probably get as a first combination a Celestron 9.25 with a side mounted 90 or 102mm refractor on the G11 mount.

There are many very nice combinations out there, and the G11 can be part of them; but you seem to be well informed so I don't think you will make a wrong choice. In the kind of equipment choices you're looking at there is no wrong choice, but I think the 5" refractor is better. The TEC140 is a good choice too, but as I say, a used FS128 is nothing to sneeze and and you can save significantly.

I've got a picture of the FS128 on the G11 with wood tripod here (in my cluttered garage) and it doesn't have the wires, but then, I already posted wires. I was just setting it up to see how it balanced.

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Adam,

First, I have a denk power switch and I love it. Probably the single element lenses degrade the image quality ever so slightly, but the convenience is WONDERFUL. I plop a 20ish 82 FOV EP in (16, 20, or 22 nagler) and with my SCT you get three premium EPs for the price of 1. I think the denk units are very underrated. Siebert has this power mag wheel thing...that might be good too.

Second, if doing visual go with the larger aperture 130...a very nice scope...or a WO 130? If doing astrophoto maybe go with the smaller scope and a better mount. I think the G11 is a caddilac..I have a shabby version of it (CI700)...if you can afford it then grab one.

Tak or not to Tak...look, there are guys who swear by AP telescopes or TMB scopes, so keep your options open. WO has nice quality, as does Vixen. IF you like to "dive in" then do so with the reviews here and on Cloudynights.

My biggest advice...get the stuff used on AMart. You will knock lots of the purchase price and the folks here stand buy what they sell.

Welcome to the hobby!

- Peter

Adam,

In short answer to the Telescope or Mount question--if going visual, get a good scope. If taking astrophotos, put yuur money into the mount. You will change tubes and cameras as they develop. Mounts stay with you and are much more critical.

I don't know much about the Denk equipment. I've seen them, and used them, but they did not interest me enough to evaluate them. (And that in itself is not a comment on them.)

On the mount issue, with all due respect, you are kinda asking us what money is worth to you.

The G-11/Gemini is the best mount for its price, and probably half again its price. (Although I do not know of any in its weight class under $4500.) If $1500 does not mean much to you (the difference between the G11 and where the next tier starts probably) go for the better and more expensive.

But a real question is--Just what do you intend to do with it and just what do you intend to put on it? If you are talking astrophotography, and money does not mean much--go for the more expensive mount. If money matters, go with the G11 even if you are doing astrophotography. If you are doing visual, then you really will never need more than the G-11. Unless you mean to load a whole lot of weight up there. Then get yourself a bigger mount.

Never evaluate a prospective purchase by reading comments in a support forum. I mean, you can get some information.....but the people who aren't having problems don't bother to write in very much. Or to put it in other words--go visit the Software Bisque Paramount support website.....and see all that can go wrong with a five figure mount.




Alex

Hi Adam,

Welcome to Astromart

I agree with the sentiment of get the best mount you can afford (Tak or AP) - you won't regret it and it should accommodate your needs as you grow into the hobby. That being said the G-11 is something you can work on, there is a lot of support/mods that people have done that help tweak it to get the best out of it for astrophotography. A CGE (same performance as G-11) has a higher payload capacity than a G-11 but is not as friendly/open to work on yourself (but people have done it).

Ever thought about mounting a SCT on your mount of choice? You would get a lot more visual impact with more apeture (go for a 10" or 11") which would be great for sharing with the friends/family/students and they are still readily good for astrophography as well with a focal reducer or even consider a Hyperstar. Have you been to Starizona's Website? It's worth taking a look at as you are gathering all your information prior to making a move...

You could always look at piggybacking a 80-90mm scope on top fo a SCT on a G-11 too...

As you are aware there are a ton of options available and reading up on them here and at CN and getting to a star party to actually try them out is the best thing you can do.

Best wishes on your purchases.

btw - the Denk powerswitch is a great public feature - you won't be disappointed.