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What are the tradeoffs of a zoom eyepiece?

Started by brentc3114, 09/20/2009 04:30PM
Posted 09/20/2009 04:30PM Opening Post
What are the trade off's of a zoom eyepiece? I am getting back to observing again, and I have a variety of orthoscopic eyepieces from University Optics, Celestron, and a no-name import.

One of the things that bugs me the most is changing eyepieces. When looking at something having to fiddle around with the eyepiece, take it out of the case, decap it, etc....can be very annoying. Of course you loose the caps in the dark!

A zoom such as the 3-6mm Nagler Zoom, Orion has a "premium Zoom" http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=eyepieces/~pcategory=accessories/~product_id=08238, or maybe even a pentax zoom such as this: http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=7899


Another possibility is to use a Denkmier Power swicth Diagnol- favorably reviewed in Rod Mollise's book and also on cloudy nights.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I will be using the eyepieces with a Celestron 8 Ultima which I just purchased.



Posted 09/20/2009 06:28PM #1
There will always be a trade off for the convenience that zooms offer. That said a high quality zoom will always outperform a medium grade prime (fixed focal length) eyepiece.

Just like photographic camera zoom lenses, zooms have a sweet spot where they offer their highest overall quality, this is generally somewhere in the middle of the zoom range, at the upper and lower extremes things go south, there will be no contest with high quality primes.

As we move into digital imaging era where photographic images are viewed on computer screen the quality takes a back seat and convenience rules.

The same is true when comparing a zoom with the top of the line eyepieces.

But, if you are happy with the performance, stay with the zooms.

Vahe
Posted 09/20/2009 06:44PM | Edited 09/20/2009 07:24PM #2
My personal quibble with many zoom eyepieces is that the apparent
field-of-view gets narrow at the long focal length setting.
For two of the cases you mention its about 42 degrees at the long
end (about 20mm focal length). This is still quite acceptible if
you compare it to an Ortho design -- about 45 degrees, and is fine
for planetary viewing. But for nebulae and just sweeping the sky,
a non-zoom eyepiece with maybe 67 or even 80 degree apparent field
is much nicer. Of course convenience is also a factor, and might
out-weigh other factors in some situations.

The TeleVue Nagler 3-6mm zoom that you mention is notable in that it
maintains about 50 degree apparent field througout the zoom range.
But it is probably a little too much power for the Ultima 8 which has
a focal ratio F10. The 3-6mm range it more optimal for F5 to F7 scopes.
Posted 09/21/2009 08:07AM #3
Brent Campbell said:

What are the trade off's of a zoom eyepiece? I am getting back to observing again, and I have a variety of orthoscopic eyepieces from University Optics, Celestron, and a no-name import.

One of the things that bugs me the most is changing eyepieces. When looking at something having to fiddle around with the eyepiece, take it out of the case, decap it, etc....can be very annoying. Of course you loose the caps in the dark!

A zoom such as the 3-6mm Nagler Zoom, Orion has a "premium Zoom" http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=eyepieces/~pcategory=accessories/~product_id=08238, or maybe even a pentax zoom such as this: http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=7899


Another possibility is to use a Denkmier Power swicth Diagnol- favorably reviewed in Rod Mollise's book and also on cloudy nights.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I will be using the eyepieces with a Celestron 8 Ultima which I just purchased.



You should consider the Hyperion 24mm-8mm zoom. The 24mm setting isn't of much use since the TFOV is only slightly different from the 20mm setting. But all the other settings are really attractive. And so is the optical quality as reported by many, many astronomers.

I used to test it for a short period of time and did some measurements.

The data are (first figure: focal length, second figure: effective field stop, third figure: AFOV, calculated without distortion):

24mm/18.2mm/43.4° - 20mm/17.7mm/50.7° - 16mm/15.2mm/54.4° - 12mm/12.7 mm/60.7° - 8 mm/10.1 mm/72.8°

With your f/10 scope it would give you almost everything up to 250x. I don't know the current price but it should be somewhere around 200$.

Andreas
Posted 09/21/2009 11:02AM | Edited 09/21/2009 11:12AM #4
One of the things that bugs me the most is changing eyepieces. When looking at something having to fiddle around with the eyepiece, take it out of the case, decap it, etc....can be very annoying. Of course you loose the caps in the dark!

It need not be such a problem. I have all my eyepieces in a case, I take the caps off once a night, replace them once a night. The rest of the time I keep them in the case and it takes only a moment to remove the eyepiece from the scope, open the lid, put the eyepiece back and then choose another eyepiece, place it in the focuser and focus. I will generally swap eyepieces several times per object.

For some of my scopes I have a large Rubbermaid plastic container mounted on the tripod spreader for the eyepieces. If the dewing is substantial, then I just keep the cover on the container.

I suspect that one issue for you is that your eyepieces are not "parafocal" so it can take you a fair amount of time and effort with an SCT to reach focus. Rack and Pinion and Crayford type focusers allow one to reach focus much more quickly.

As far as what one is giving up with a Zoom. Good simple 4 element eyepieces like your Orthoscopics are difficult to beat in a slower scope. Vlad suggests that a premium Zoom will "always" beat a "medium" quality eyepiece.. I am not so sure about that one. Always is a big word... My experience suggests otherwise but of course it mostly a question of semantics.

So what are you trading away? as John said, field of view. An 8 inch F/10 SCT even at it's best has a limited True Field of View and a Zoom eyepiece will limit it even more. From Andreas's numbers, I calculate that you would be limited to a TFoV of just about 0.5 degrees, about the size of the moon and less than half of the TFoV possible. At the minimum, I would suggest adding an eyepiece like a 32mm Plossl with a full sized field stop, this will provide a 0.8 degree TFoV. A full sized Focal reducer can provide noticeably more.

And too, for many of us, we have been seduced by the pristine wide fields that single focal length eyepieces can provide, those 68 and 82 degree AFoVs can be addictive. You are giving those up with a zoom.

(Myself, I love the big widefield/richfield views, wandering around the Milky Way with a 2 degree TFoV in an 8 inch is quite the wonderful experience..)

All that said, I have a Vixen LV Zoom, it is the same Japanese made 24mm-8mm Zoom that has been sold by many vendors, Celestron, Meade, TeleVue to name a few. For many years it was the standard "premium zoom." It starts out with a 38 degree effective AFoV at 24mm and at 8mm provides something around 58 degrees as measured by drift timing (and of course assuming my memory is correct.) These generally sell new for between $150 and $200. Used, they can be found for around $100:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=644646

I primarily use it with my PST ({Personal Solar Scope) but occasionally use it with one of slower focal ratio Newtonians or refractors. It does a reasonable job but for the most challenging high power views, when I want the best I can get for a given scope, I will most always choose a fixed focal length eyepiece.

I am one who believes you can never have too many eyepieces, adding one decent quality zoom to your collection is a reasonable thing to do. There are some very inexpensive zooms, Celestron makes a 24mm-8mm that is around $50, I would suggest avoiding the inexpensive zooms. I have heard good things about the Hyperion Zooms but they tend to be relatively expensive and rare on the used marketplace. Depending on your budget, one of the Hyperions or one of the Japanese made 8mm-24mm Zooms would be a good choice IMHO.

Jon


Posted 09/21/2009 01:19PM #5
Since I bought my TV 8-24 a couple of years ago, I have significantly winnowed my eyepiece collection. I bought it for convenience but find that I use it almost exclusively. Sure, the field gets narrow, but I don't find it objectionable. When paired with a barlow, the range of magnification is really nice - from 4mm all the way to 24mm! You do have to switch the barlow in and out to obtain this range, but not as big a deal as trying to figure out which eyepiece to grab and then worrying about lens caps, etc.

I also find the zoom REALLY nice for star watches. The big, wide-field eyepieces are great, but newbies seem to have a lot more difficulty positioning their eyes with them. Plus it's nice to just bump the power up and let someone see the difference.

Pat