Animals are conscious, sentient beings.

This is no surprise to me, having been a vegetarian for 36 years and a former zoo keeper, but I'll bet the Texas Cattlemen's Association (the group that sued Oprah for saying red meat was unhealthy) would disagree.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Animals are conscious and should be treated as such
October 1, 2012

Are animals conscious? Yes, says the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, publicly proclaimed by three eminent neuroscientists, David Edelman of the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, California, Philip Low of Stanford University and Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology, Marc Bekoff writes in New Scientist.


“Non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors,” the declaration says.

“Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.”

“I hope the declaration will be used to protect animals from being treated abusively and inhumanely,” says Bekoff. ”All too often, sound scientific knowledge about animal cognition, emotions and consciousness is not recognized in animal welfare laws.”

However, the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon, which came into force on December 1, 2009, recognizes that animals are sentient beings and calls on member states to “pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals” in agriculture, fisheries, transport, research and development and space policies.”

we're still going to eat them.

Jim J

George, Since childhood(59 now), I've had an aversion to killing things. I'm not really sure how it developed, which really puzzled me when young because I knew it was not something I had been taught(in catechism, for example). When I was a teenager, I came across Joseph Wood Krutch's "The Great Chain of Life" and found I had a 'kindred spirit' in my thinking.

I'm just inclined to think that all life has some value.

I remember many years ago(early '80s) I was at the TX Star Party and we were climbing a hill to a small observatory for a Group Photo. I was walking along with Sue French and I remember her stopping to turn over a large beetle that was on it's back, struggling to right itself. Interesting the 'small' things that make lasting impressions.

George Blahun said:


This is no surprise to me, having been a vegetarian for 36 years and a former zoo keeper, but I'll bet the Texas Cattlemen's Association (the group that sued Oprah for saying red meat was unhealthy) would disagree.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Animals are conscious and should be treated as such
October 1, 2012

Are animals conscious? Yes, says the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, publicly proclaimed by three eminent neuroscientists, David Edelman of the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, California, Philip Low of Stanford University and Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology, Marc Bekoff writes in New Scientist.


“Non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors,� the declaration says.

“Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.�

“I hope the declaration will be used to protect animals from being treated abusively and inhumanely,� says Bekoff. �All too often, sound scientific knowledge about animal cognition, emotions and consciousness is not recognized in animal welfare laws.�

However, the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon, which came into force on December 1, 2009, recognizes that animals are sentient beings and calls on member states to “pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals� in agriculture, fisheries, transport, research and development and space policies.�

We share a world with Carnivores, (see my pic in pet pics ) so the morality of the issue should be centered more around humane treatment of livestock...


That being said, humans have an incredible knack for cruelty and ignorance. I deal with it regularly.

Yesterday we caught a horse that the owner abandoned in the desert, poor thing was a lame bag of bones and should have been put down instead of being made to suffer.

We have a roughly 10 year old German Shepherd in hospice care in our facility. She was found tied to a telephone pole on a rural road in the desert. She has kidney failure requiring daily IV and cooked meals to sustain her quality of life. The previous "owner" likely knew of her condition as the signs of late stage renal failure are impossible to miss, yet instead of humane euthanasia or care, they opted for slow suffering starvation.

George Blahun said:


This is no surprise to me, having been a vegetarian for 36 years and a former zoo keeper, but I'll bet the Texas Cattlemen's Association (the group that sued Oprah for saying red meat was unhealthy) would disagree.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Animals are conscious and should be treated as such
October 1, 2012

Are animals conscious? Yes, says the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, publicly proclaimed by three eminent neuroscientists, David Edelman of the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, California, Philip Low of Stanford University and Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology, Marc Bekoff writes in New Scientist.


“Non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors,� the declaration says.

“Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.�

“I hope the declaration will be used to protect animals from being treated abusively and inhumanely,� says Bekoff. �All too often, sound scientific knowledge about animal cognition, emotions and consciousness is not recognized in animal welfare laws.�

However, the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon, which came into force on December 1, 2009, recognizes that animals are sentient beings and calls on member states to “pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals� in agriculture, fisheries, transport, research and development and space policies.�

IMO zoos are cruel and disgraceful place for higher mammals. I stopped going to them because I felt sorry for them - even in the nicer zoos. Taking animals from their homes and families to be put on display for humans in a simulated or scaled-down environment is sad. I hope your love of animals made you become a former zoo keeper.

Jim J

George Blahun said:


This is no surprise to me, having been a vegetarian for 36 years and a former zoo keeper, but I'll bet the Texas Cattlemen's Association (the group that sued Oprah for saying red meat was unhealthy) would disagree.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Animals are conscious and should be treated as such
October 1, 2012

Are animals conscious? Yes, says the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, publicly proclaimed by three eminent neuroscientists, David Edelman of the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, California, Philip Low of Stanford University and Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology, Marc Bekoff writes in New Scientist.


“Non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors,� the declaration says.

“Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.�

“I hope the declaration will be used to protect animals from being treated abusively and inhumanely,� says Bekoff. �All too often, sound scientific knowledge about animal cognition, emotions and consciousness is not recognized in animal welfare laws.�

However, the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon, which came into force on December 1, 2009, recognizes that animals are sentient beings and calls on member states to “pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals� in agriculture, fisheries, transport, research and development and space policies.�

Not trying to hijack your thread...but...

Our German Sheperd hospice will likely not make it for more than a few days. She is on a pretty intense IV plan, but the prognosis is poor. We did a blood panel today and the results are not good...

This was preventable, but the bigger picture we see is an overall apathy towards any other life forms...

WHY?

George Blahun said:


This is no surprise to me, having been a vegetarian for 36 years and a former zoo keeper, but I'll bet the Texas Cattlemen's Association (the group that sued Oprah for saying red meat was unhealthy) would disagree.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Animals are conscious and should be treated as such
October 1, 2012

Are animals conscious? Yes, says the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, publicly proclaimed by three eminent neuroscientists, David Edelman of the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, California, Philip Low of Stanford University and Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology, Marc Bekoff writes in New Scientist.


“Non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors,� the declaration says.

“Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.�

“I hope the declaration will be used to protect animals from being treated abusively and inhumanely,� says Bekoff. �All too often, sound scientific knowledge about animal cognition, emotions and consciousness is not recognized in animal welfare laws.�

However, the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon, which came into force on December 1, 2009, recognizes that animals are sentient beings and calls on member states to “pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals� in agriculture, fisheries, transport, research and development and space policies.�

George:

I agree with your position from a moral/ethical/philosophical point of view, animals are sentient beings and deserve appropriate treatment.

Unfortunately, I still have some of the psychological characteristics we incorrectly categorize as "animal" and so I still have this disappointing habit of eating chickens and fishes. But the effect on my body eating meat, particularly red meat, has had is clear and regrettable.

I honor you in your decision and commitment. With some discipline and luck, I may find myself there some day. And if I do find myself there, this thread and your efforts here will not have been in vain because they have moved one person down the path of sanity towards our fellow animals.

Jon

George,

This is interesting to say the least. However, thier view of what consciousness is, seems rather limited based on what you posted, i.e., the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consciousness is an exceedingly complex topic, and has many meanings (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/).

I have no doubt that many animals, if not all, exhibit some level of consiousness. The real question becomes exactly what level and then what should that mean in our behavior towards them? And then, what would it mean if one day it is discovered that the plant kingdom possesses some rudimentary form of consciousness as well? What would be left to eat?

Sounds far fetched that a plant could meet the definition of consiuosness that your post references, directed behavior. But we do seem to see this in some species of plants. As this article states (http://articles.boston.com/2012-06-17/ideas/32231146_1_plants-carrot-human-behavior):

"In 2006, Penn State researchers demonstrated that the parasitic dodder vine can smell the difference between wheat and tomato plants. In 2007 a pair of Canadian researchers determined that plants can tell the difference between their own kin and strangers of the same species. “Plants have this kind of hidden but complicated social life,” one of the researchers told National Geographic News."

And here's another interesting discussion on the topic of what is consciousness and how low does it acually go in life forms: http://arcade.stanford.edu/sentient-plants-sentient-bacteria.

If we allow consciousness be the test to decide what we eat or not, we may just go extinct!

david goldman said:

Animals are conscious. Hollywood certainly convince me of that when i use to watch TV shows like:

Mr Ed
Flipper
Rin-tin-tin
Lassie
Captain Kanguru...

Fury: The Story of a Horse and a Boy Who Loved Him