http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M
What'ya think?
What'ya think?
F35s/F22s Useless?
Started by Rod Kaufman, 12/24/2013 04:46AM
Posted 12/24/2013 04:46AM
Opening Post
Posted 12/24/2013 06:12AM
#1
Not sure, U-Tube is not exactly a source for information. So I am not sure what the truth is on this. But here is a quote about this from someone that does.
Andrew Hoehn, Director of RAND Project Air Force, made the following statement today:
Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved. Those reports are not accurate. RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat. Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft
Andrew Hoehn, Director of RAND Project Air Force, made the following statement today:
Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved. Those reports are not accurate. RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat. Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft
[SIZE="Large"][/SIZE][COLOR="Blue"][/COLOR] Floyd Blue
Amateur Imager
Posted 12/26/2013 05:29AM
#2
YouTube............ Not a real reliable source of technical information on such things as this. Dead give a way whom or what ever entity posted this video is pushing the Russian jets is in the the musical que. Roll the movie music from the Star Trek movie... "Freedom Fighters" from Two Steps From Hell as the SU27 begins it's show. The SU27 has been around a few years and has been know for it's own widow making flight characteristics.
As for te F35...Yea, it's never gona live up to the expectations it was sold on. Lots of performance & system reliability problems, but then that should come as no surprise given all of the nations inputting to the program. Too many cooks in the kitchen, & trying to design a one size fits all tactical aircraft. One size never fits all and usually excels at nothing, that one size does it all, medium well! It can't dance as well with the more single mission designs, but can do missions beyond those single mission designs are just not all that good at. I think the still standing champion at doing everything it was designed to do, and doing all very well even excellently in some categories is the "rusty old" latest versions of the F15.
Regarding the F22... It actually does everything it was designed to excellently and has been proven to be able to out perform any and all other fighter/interceptors near it's class, there's really nothing else in it's class yet. Of course it's design came out of the old school method of designing an aircraft for military use. It was the last of the really competitive design aircraft, the "contract" for the fighter the USAF was looking for was awarded to the company with the best design, not a "designed by everyone for everything" single entry. The F22 however has a serious flaw, it too has proven to be a widow maker due to hypoxia when flying at altitude. I don't know if the problem was ever fully resolved, but it had something to do with the oxygen supply system & how the oxygen was delivered to the pilot in flight. Performance wise the F22 is the fighter to beat, but pretty useless if the pilot oxygen supply system is unreliable at high altitude. Also, exactly because the F22 Aircraft is so far out front on performance and having no real equal even expected for yet a few more years, it has basically kind of outclassed it's self to justify having a bunch of them at it's price tag. Especially given that still currently proven superiority enhanced F15s can still pretty much rule the sky in numbers as far less cost per unit.
So, yea the F35 has demonstrated a lackluster performance based on what they originally wanted from the units, but it is still capable of doing all of the jobs everyone wanted it to. The F22 is far from useless, but it is too good for it's own good for performance & delivery of features and benefits the USAF wanted out of it.... Budget is what has halted it's production until there is an enemy the F15 can't still handle for much less. In short the F22 was/is way too far ahead of it's time currently. I hope they have figured out the oxygen system reliability problems as well, that is really the only performance strike against it... but then killing pilots is a pretty big strike!
Mark J.
As for te F35...Yea, it's never gona live up to the expectations it was sold on. Lots of performance & system reliability problems, but then that should come as no surprise given all of the nations inputting to the program. Too many cooks in the kitchen, & trying to design a one size fits all tactical aircraft. One size never fits all and usually excels at nothing, that one size does it all, medium well! It can't dance as well with the more single mission designs, but can do missions beyond those single mission designs are just not all that good at. I think the still standing champion at doing everything it was designed to do, and doing all very well even excellently in some categories is the "rusty old" latest versions of the F15.
Regarding the F22... It actually does everything it was designed to excellently and has been proven to be able to out perform any and all other fighter/interceptors near it's class, there's really nothing else in it's class yet. Of course it's design came out of the old school method of designing an aircraft for military use. It was the last of the really competitive design aircraft, the "contract" for the fighter the USAF was looking for was awarded to the company with the best design, not a "designed by everyone for everything" single entry. The F22 however has a serious flaw, it too has proven to be a widow maker due to hypoxia when flying at altitude. I don't know if the problem was ever fully resolved, but it had something to do with the oxygen supply system & how the oxygen was delivered to the pilot in flight. Performance wise the F22 is the fighter to beat, but pretty useless if the pilot oxygen supply system is unreliable at high altitude. Also, exactly because the F22 Aircraft is so far out front on performance and having no real equal even expected for yet a few more years, it has basically kind of outclassed it's self to justify having a bunch of them at it's price tag. Especially given that still currently proven superiority enhanced F15s can still pretty much rule the sky in numbers as far less cost per unit.
So, yea the F35 has demonstrated a lackluster performance based on what they originally wanted from the units, but it is still capable of doing all of the jobs everyone wanted it to. The F22 is far from useless, but it is too good for it's own good for performance & delivery of features and benefits the USAF wanted out of it.... Budget is what has halted it's production until there is an enemy the F15 can't still handle for much less. In short the F22 was/is way too far ahead of it's time currently. I hope they have figured out the oxygen system reliability problems as well, that is really the only performance strike against it... but then killing pilots is a pretty big strike!
Mark J.
Posted 12/26/2013 05:53AM
#3
Sorry for the double up posting but........ Yea, the best manuverability out here, along with great stealth capabilities!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csj8_GOy1os
The F22 is actually capable of pulling turns, climbs and such manouvers at G forces great enough to kill the human pilot, still stay together, and keep flying! Uh yea, this "feature" is basically regulated and contained by the onboard fly by wire system... At least they knew of that potential widow maker!
Mark J.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csj8_GOy1os
The F22 is actually capable of pulling turns, climbs and such manouvers at G forces great enough to kill the human pilot, still stay together, and keep flying! Uh yea, this "feature" is basically regulated and contained by the onboard fly by wire system... At least they knew of that potential widow maker!
Mark J.
Funding Member
