Posts Made By: Rod Kaufman

Originally Posted by David Cotterell

After they removed his gun from the back waistband of his pants. A gun he never wielded. 

They executed him.  In the back of the head.  And 11 more shots.  

Dave

Originally Posted by James Brown

As horrified as I am by this execution James, I think one can point out that the cop who shot the woman at the capital was in no jeopardy.   She was not armed.   Trespass and obstruction are both felonies.   But the cop at the capital is a hero to the left.  Plenty of hypocrisy to go around when it comes to riots.

Originally Posted by James Brown

As horrified as I am by this execution James, I think one can point out that the cop who shot the woman at the capital was in no jeopardy.   She was not armed.   Trespass and obstruction are both felonies.   But the cop at the capital is a hero to the left.  Plenty of hypocrisy to go around when it comes to riots.

Originally Posted by James Brown

Isn't Area 51 the air force base where they have space alien corpses?  Just kidding.  But seriously, are there "deadly force" signs around the Capital?  Are you sure that "Area 51" includes the Capital?

Originally Posted by James Brown

You have twice now quoted the results of an official post-shooting investigation.   It was a partisan investigation for sure, done by the capital police themselves, and I’m not personally convinced that the officer in that case was justified in his use of deadly force.   I note that you’ve avoided posting your own personal opinion on the capital shooting.  But the investigation results are in, and the cop got cleared.  I’m Ok with the investigation results even though I’m not personally convinced.

No doubt when ICE or the Trump DOJ completes their investigation, the two Minnesota agents will be cleared of wrongdoing.  When that happens, I’ll not quote the results back to you because in my opinion the agent who shot Good might have a legal case, but was incompetently trigger happy at the bare minimum.   The agent who shot the ICU nurse is, in my opinion, a cold blooded murderer, no matter what the official investigation says six months from now.  I’m willing to admit that I don’t have all the facts in any of these cases, so my opinion is not worth much.

This post is just a long way to say “spare me” when you quote the capital police report exonerating their own guy.   This post is also intended to preemptively clarify that I do not consider these three police shootings to be morally equivalent, since someone may read carelessly and think that was my point.

Originally Posted by James Brown

Rod, this sentence proves how wrong you are about Jan 6 being an actual “insurrection”.  I fully agree that a military-type use of lethal force, i.e. shooting each and every combatant as they entered the capital, would be totally justified in the event of an actual insurrection.  On the contrary, Jan 6 was a riot, and different rules apply.  Virtually all of the Capital police showed appropriate restraint.  Good for them.

I suppose we’re just arguing about semantics now, but no sane person thinks the deluded Jan 6 rioters had any chance of overthrowing the government, or blocking the transfer of power to the Biden administration. If you want to water the word “insurrection“ down to mean something like a completely stupid politically motivated riot, have at it. But in that case, I think you forfeit the claim that lethal force is broadly justified ‘because an insurrection is occurring.’  Lethal force is of course justified in defense of the government from legit insurrectionist forces. In a riot, standard rules of police engagement apply.  Assuming you are correct, and the cop who shot Ashley Babbitt was in legitimate fear of his or other civilians safety, the shooting was justified. As I mentioned, I don’t buy that, but that is the official explanation, so I can live with it. I certainly don’t buy that any shooting was automatically justified because Jan 6 was an “insurrection.”

Originally Posted by Russ Carroll

I agree with your comment in bold.

I totally disagree that deadly force wasn't justified against attackers attempting to enter the house chamber. I see little if any difference between that and a mob trying to attack the President in the White House - Bring on the body bags in that situation as far as I am concerned.

Originally Posted by James Brown

David and Russ - ignore the following, this comment does not matter as to whether or not a shooting is justified.  This is for Rod alone.  

Smith's actions contradict his testimony and demonstrate that with a minor exception no insurrection occurred under federal law.  About 1500 rioters were charged, most with minor crimes.  Smith only charged 18 men with Seditious Conspiracy and convicted 14.  (According to Wiki).  Most all were Oathkeepers or Proud Boy gang members.   Exactly 0 people were charged with Treason of course.   

Seditious Conspiracy is the closest crime leveled at the Jan 6 rioters for a coordinated attempt at insurrection.  He did not press this charge against 99% of the rioters because even attack dog Smith knew that the vast majority of the rioters were not guilty of Seditious Conspiracy.  So, except for the proud boys and oathkeepers, there was no conspiracy, no coordination, and no insurrection.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious Conspiracy  If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.