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Posts Made By: James Brown

December 21, 2018 12:39 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by James Brown

Hi James:  See my reply to Russ, I've been working this thread from the bottom up.  The texts on Strzok's phone from his time with the Special Counsel's Office were absolutely purposefully deleted.  See the December AIG report I linked to in my reply to Russ.   Were they illegally deleted?  Not that I know of.

Still - consider this: Strozok was quietly fired from the SCO team when his unprofessional texts to Page began to become public.  The texts that got him booted from the SCO team were sent before the election, before the SCO investigation, and on an earlier phone.  The earlier texts show this guy to be a partisan and obviously it has bled into his work, and Mueller had no choice but to boot Strzok off of the SCO team when he discovered this.

So, Strzok is booted from the SCO team because of his unprofessional texting behavior.  Then, what does the SCO records custodian do when Strzok turns in his SCO phone?  She reviews the texts, says there is nothing here, and resets it.  That is bad form and embarrassing to the FBI.  Obviously Flynn chose to take the plea deal, and obviously he was guilty because he admits it.  That does not give the FBI a pass in my view.  If I ever have the misfortune of being prosecuted for a political crime using investigations undertaken by an agent who is (A) known to be partisan against me by his earlier texts, and (B) has conveniently had his texts from the time of his investigation of me deleted, I'll be calling for dismissal of the charges based upon destruction of potentially exculpatory evidence.

The above is all my own thinking, and I could be full of it.  Like I said to Russ, I have not dug deep.  But I trust Dershowitz more than I trust most other commentators, and the texts we are talking about bother him too.  

Jim
Hi Russ and James: 

Upon further review, Trump and Gulliani are incensed about the texts from before the investigation, texts that were sent on a Samsung 5, lost and then found.  So, they are at least exaggerating the scope of the problem, to deflect and distract.  This does not excuse the un-professionalism displayed by senior FBI agents much to the objective embarrassment of the agency. 

On the other hand, both fact checkers you mention entirely gloss over the iPhones Strzoc and Page were issued while on Mueller's team.  From Politifact:

"The inspector general was unable to recover text messages Strzok and Page may have sent using iPhones they were given when they joined Mueller’s team. But a special counsel official who reviewed Strzok’s iPhone before it was reset found it contained no substantive messages."

In this case, for these phones, we simply have to take the SCO's word for it.  Given the back story, that is not acceptable to me.  If there were texts relevant to Flynn's defense, they might have been on those SCO  iPhones.

Jim

December 21, 2018 04:22 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Russ Carroll



To say this is deep in the weeds is an understatement. There is no scenario of any set of texts that makes Flynn innocent of blatant lies to the FBI on important national security issues. No set of text messages nullify a signed letter of intent from Donald Trump to build a Trump Moscow hotel, pursuing it right up to the election. No set of texts can change the fact that time after time, Trump has sided against our own intelligence community (and allies) and has sided with our enemies, the most recent example being pulling out of Syria - without telling a sole in his own administration.

Did the cops baton a perp against police rules? Maybe. That does not make the perp innocent.
Hi Russ:

I'm surprised at the highlighted aspect of your post.  You ought to know that rules strictly limiting police behavior protect us all.  Rules limiting police conduct are bedrock principles of civil liberty. 

Sure, just because the cops might beat a confession out of the perp does not make him innocent.  Of course, this completely misses the point.  What about the maybe one in ten victims of the baton who happen to be innocent?  Are you really going to excuse the cops because typically they only beat the guilty?

Of course Flynn is guilty.  That does not mean that sketchy FBI behavior is OK in this instance.  That was the point of the original Dershowitz article that I brought to this thread.  Flynn can be guilty as sin and that does not absolve the FBI of some fairly disturbing practices.

Jim

December 21, 2018 04:41 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Russ Carroll



To say this is deep in the weeds is an understatement. There is no scenario of any set of texts that makes Flynn innocent of blatant lies to the FBI on important national security issues. No set of text messages nullify a signed letter of intent from Donald Trump to build a Trump Moscow hotel, pursuing it right up to the election. No set of texts can change the fact that time after time, Trump has sided against our own intelligence community (and allies) and has sided with our enemies, the most recent example being pulling out of Syria - without telling a sole in his own administration.

Did the cops baton a perp against police rules? Maybe. That does not make the perp innocent.
By the way, I can't tell if your metaphor is about Flynn specifically or FBI conduct in general?  I've agreed with you that Flynn is guilty from the get go, and even made that point expressly to Richard a couple of times yesterday.  I'm having a hard time believing that you think police misconduct is acceptable, just because the perp happens to be guilty, but that is what it sounds like you are saying.  

J

December 21, 2018 04:46 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Russ Carroll



I don't believe they did anything wrong to Flynn. I was trying to point out that even if they did, Flynn, as a high official of our government, is guilty as hell and should be held to the highest standard possible. It is obvious that Trumps greatest defense is to attack anyone involved with bringing the truth to light. Shit up the place so everything, especially the truth, isn't decernable. I, and most people, will not fall for it.
I agree that Flynn is guilty.  I don't deny your characterization of Trump.   My broader point (really Dershowitz's) broader point is being lost in the noise apparently.  J

December 21, 2018 04:49 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Brian McFarland


It sounds to me like he's saying "police misconduct doesn't make a guilty perp innocent". I think.
Of course.  But standing alone that statement is so obvious that Russ would never have posted it.  

December 21, 2018 05:02 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Brian McFarland


Ok, but that's the meaning I took when it wasn't standing alone. I think it was meant to be obvious, because I suspect it wasn't just you he was addressing. 
Ok.  

December 21, 2018 06:10 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Russ Carroll
To restate the last point of my last post:

Did the cops baton a perp against police rules? i don't believe they did that, but even if they did, that does not make the perp innocent, which dwarfs the charge of potential police misconduct.
This is one of those situations where you are arguing specific details and I am arguing a more general point, so we are talking past each other.

On the merits of the Flynn case, I do not think that the police misconduct was illegal or anywhere near using the baton (extracting a confession by force), planting evidence or other grievous police crimes.   I do not think that Flynn should walk.  Obviously Flynn agrees or he would not have made the deal he made.  So, in this specific case the police misconduct possibly does pale in comparison.

That is a very dangerous path, however.  Generally speaking, in my civil libertarian view, police misconduct always dwarfs the charge, even if the charge is murder.  I think it is far better for the guilty to walk free now and then, than for an innocent man to be jailed.  

For what it is worth, I think that the FBI conduct in this case was "troubling or disturbing," if not strictly illegal.  I particularly think that the Strzok/Page texts that have been publicly revealed are chilling.  I am concerned when the SCO brings charges for lies about things that were possibly not illegal, when the truth was known to the SCO in advance.  Mine is an extremely liberal viewpoint.  It is a 100% ACLU certified point of view, and well articulated by an extremely liberal professor:

"So back to the question of whether citizens who care about civil liberties should favor the tactics used by the FBI against Flynn. I believe the answer should be no. The function of law enforcement is to uncover past crimes, not to provide citizens the opportunity to commit new crimes by testing their veracity. There may be extraordinary situations, such as prevention of mass casualty terrorism, that justifies the use of highly questionable tactics but, absent such extraordinary circumstances, FBI agents and prosecutors should not deliberately provide citizens the opportunity to commit federal crimes in order to turn them into government witnesses.

When questioning any suspect, officials should not ask questions whose answers they already know, for the sole purpose of seeing whether the suspect will lie. If they do ask such questions, untruthful answers should not be deemed “material” to the investigation, because the FBI already knew the truth. The FBI should not discourage the suspect from having his lawyer present during the questioning, if a false answer will subject him to criminal liability. Even noble ends do not justify ignoble means, and some of the means used by the special counsel have, indeed, been ignoble."

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/421634-alan-dershowitz-did-michael-flynn-lie-or-did-the-fbi-act-improperly

Incidentally, the fact that Richard more or less agrees with me in this instance, and you do not, proves that Richard is an opportunistic liberal and that you are a genuine and consistent conservative.  Funny how the truth comes out

Jim

December 21, 2018 07:04 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Richard Davis



Actually I'm not a "situational" anything.  That strikes me as more along your lines.  

One thing I do think your last days postings indicates, is that you are "Selectively Principled" or at the very least a "Situationally avoiding observer" of the truth.  

In other words, you like the liberals here, conveniently ignore the facts and crimes committed by the left, as well as ignoring the provable selective prosecution by the leftists who are handling the Trump matter.

Funny how that works with you.  LOL tongue 

P.S.  Some might call your avoidance of addressing criminal activity by the Hilary Clinton campaign to indicate intellectual dishonesty on your part, or perhaps not wanting to upset those liberals whom you seem to coddle and suck up to regularly.

Once again for the intellectual frauds out there:  (And I'm not accusing you of that, but many here on the left)

https://nypost.com/2018/12/18/more-proof-the-deep-states-hypocrisy-is-alive-and-well/

P.P.S.  And don't worry, I don't expect you to address the blatant double standard of selective prosecution whereby Democrats and the corrupt Justice Dep't bigwigs like Comey, Brennan, and Clapper are given a pass, and anyone associated with Trump are hammered with subpoenas and threatened with Jail time, when they've committed Identical crimes for which others in the opposite political party, have been prosecuted.

After all, I don't expect you to go against the grain of the intellectual dishonesty shown by your buddies here on the left. 

If you were to show any intellectual consistency, they might just kick you out of their little treehouse.   LOL smile
FWIW I think HRC lied and could be prosecuted.  We were talking about a different topic though, and neither I, nor anyone else, desired to sidetrack the conversation.  "They did it too" is kind of boring, and not much of a defense, in my opinion.

Jim

December 21, 2018 07:08 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Richard Davis



Actually I'm not a "situational" anything.  That strikes me as more along your lines.  

One thing I do think your last days postings indicates, is that you are "Selectively Principled" or at the very least a "Situationally avoiding observer" of the truth.  

In other words, you like the liberals here, conveniently ignore the facts and crimes committed by the left, as well as ignoring the provable selective prosecution by the leftists who are handling the Trump matter.

Funny how that works with you.  LOL tongue 

P.S.  Some might call your avoidance of addressing criminal activity by the Hilary Clinton campaign to indicate intellectual dishonesty on your part, or perhaps not wanting to upset those liberals whom you seem to coddle and suck up to regularly.

Once again for the intellectual frauds out there:  (And I'm not accusing you of that, but many here on the left)

https://nypost.com/2018/12/18/more-proof-the-deep-states-hypocrisy-is-alive-and-well/

P.P.S.  And don't worry, I don't expect you to address the blatant double standard of selective prosecution whereby Democrats and the corrupt Justice Dep't bigwigs like Comey, Brennan, and Clapper are given a pass, and anyone associated with Trump are hammered with subpoenas and threatened with Jail time, when they've committed Identical crimes for which others in the opposite political party, have been prosecuted.

After all, I don't expect you to go against the grain of the intellectual dishonesty shown by your buddies here on the left. 

If you were to show any intellectual consistency, they might just kick you out of their little treehouse.   LOL smile
p.s.  If you want to, you can start a post comparing the treatment of R's vs. D's at the hands of the DOJ and FBI.  Or did you already do that?  No guarantee that you'll get any takers, but hey, you can try.  J

December 21, 2018 08:48 AM Forum: Politics

Fox News: Michael Flynn Is Innocent!

Posted By James Brown

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

 attacking my ethics as "situational" or "opportunistic" in your analysis of my politics...
Rats, you missed the joke.  See - you accuse Russ of being a D, or a lib, but his views on policing and criminal justice are old-school conservative.  This is consistent with Russ's bedrock conservatism.  Heck, his hatred of DJT is founded in conservatism!  

On the other hand, My view on these civil liberties topics tends to run to the extreme card-carrying ACLU civil libertarian side.  Old school liberalism, I guess.  Certainly nothing akin to what the liberals teach on campus nowadays.  Anyway, you agree with my libertarian (old school liberal) ideals.  That, in conjunction with your silly insistence on calling Russ a liberal is funny!  But, you know what they say - a joke is not funny if it has to be explained!

Jim