Posts Made By: James Brown

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

Just ask Russ Carroll, Jim Brown, Rod Kaufman, Jim Moscheck

Dang iPad

Originally Posted by James Brown

Thank Goodness,  after the last few days , I am still grouped with the good guys, the patriots, the Americans, my brothers... no matter how I might have voted in the past.  Jim

Seriously, the iPad is driving me nuts.   But while I’m here did anyone else see the Purdue MSU game?   Boo yah!

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

Apparently now Jim Brown is grouped with the GOOD guys now that he's voted for Democrat Joe Biden.

You miss the point.  I am pleased to be grouped with rational friendly adults, rather than with you.  I'll still be voting R as I've noted many times, just not for Trump, if, heaven forbid, the opportunity were to present itself.

Jim

Originally Posted by Jim Moscheck

Yeah, it's from CNN and you guys will dismiss it before even watching it, but here are a bunch of GOP senators and representatives on video in their own words in 2015 and 2016 before the 2016 election, and man, it's like they all have the sixth sense. All of the big players are here including Nikki Haley, Miss Lindsay, Cruz, and especially Rubio warning against Donald Trump. Funny how they all forgot everything they warned us about and in turn helped turn this country into a f'ing mess.

Hi Jim:

I'm sympathetic to the GOP leaders, and of course I'm in the same boat since I voted for Trump in '96 and tried to support him throughout.  I think the CNN montage bears some discussion.  Sorry, but this will bit a bit long.  

The psychic sound bites were taken from the campaign trail - of course his opponents were warning against Trump - they wanted the nomination.  A lot of us wanted a different candidate.  I actually became a delegate to support Rubio in the local convention.  We lost.  So what do we Rs do then?

Option 1 would be to quit the party, at least nominally, and oppose Trump because one truly believed that he was dangerous.  This is the route Russ took, I hope I am not overstating Russ's position (pretty sure I am understating it actually!).  Good for him, his position proved to be wise in retrospect, especially since the pandemic started and through the election aftermath.

Option 2 for any R is to do the best you can to support the elected leader of your party.  This is the position me, Rubio, Cruz, Haley and many others took.  I don't think this option turned out too bad until the election of 2020 and aftermath.  We can disagree about whether the country was F'd up before the pandemic or whether the pandemic was significantly worsened by the Federal response.  Heck, we can disagree about whether the country is F'd up now.  Biden takes office in a week and a half.  We can agree to be happy about that.  A lot happened in the economy and world affairs in 2017-2019 that can please a traditional R.

Option 3 of course is to support Trump to the death and metaphorically (or literally) storm the capital.   That is not such a good option for Rubio, Cruz, Haley and the like.  I think they are really in the "Option 2" group along with me.

I don't think the "Option 2" R leadership is guilty of hypocrisy or toadyism for supporting Trump up to the election.  They/we made the best of a bad situation.  Arguably the country would have been in a much worse place if the Rs had entirely abandoned Trump in 2017.  Arguably the country would be in a much worse place under HRC.  So, my beef with this CNN montage is the underlying messaging - that those Rs who supported Trump until the wheels came off are hypocrites who knew better.  I don't see it that way, and I certainly did not anticipate Trump's behavior after the election.  FWIW I think that Trump's drumbeat of "Stolen Election" is doing far more damage to the national fabric than the riot.  The riot is a predictable effect of Trump's bogus assault on the various states elections. 

Maybe Rubio, Cruz, Haley and so on will pay the ultimate price and maybe this will be an extinction event for the Rs who supported Trump in any way whatsoever.  That is obviously CNN's goal.  I doubt this is the end though.  Come 2022 and 2024, I think you'll see the GOP doing pretty well.

Jim

Originally Posted by Jim Moscheck

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Jim. As far as what they said during the last presidential campaign, we weren't supposed to believe them? They were just making that stuff up to try and win? I take them at their word and so in turn call them hypocrites and sycophants.   

They weren't just making stuff up Jim.  But statements were made during the R primary that in retrospect turned out to be naïve.  These same statements were at least hoped by me and I think by Rubio etc. to be political stump exaggerations at the time.  For example:

Let's say one of Trumps primary opponents accused Trump of being a dishonest narcissist.   Time has proven that the allegation was not only true, but exceptionally true - way beyond conventionally true.  When Trump won the election, that politician probably hoped he was exaggerating and surely said to himself or herself - "well maybe Trump will rise to the occasion and meet the demands of the job.  Let's work with him to the best of our ability and see what happens..."  

Then along comes the actual presidency, and at some point everyone in "Option 2" came to realize that Trump was worse than any exaggeration made him out to be.  

Jim

Originally Posted by James Brown

Then along comes the actual presidency, and at some point everyone in "Option 2" came to realize that Trump was worse than any exaggeration made him out to be.  

Jim

I should say 'worse as a person.'  I remain pleased with some of the Trump administration's policies and many of his judicial appointments.  All of his accomplishments are overwhelmed by his behavior surrounding the lead up and aftermath of the election though...  My opinion only...  J 

Originally Posted by Jim Moscheck

Pence doesn’t seem to think so.

Hi Jim:

Pence is probably the most compelling example of what I was talking about in the other thread.  Let's assume that Pence wants the best for this nation.  I personally think that is true.  knowing what he knew about Trump in 2016 he could have declined the VP.  Or he could have decided that he could best serve the country by taking the job, advancing conservatives policies and buffering the nation from Trump's worst impulses, should Trump go off the rails.   Remember this is 2016.

In the run up to and aftermath of the election, leading to the riot, Trump went off the rails, but Pence stayed the course and we will have an orderly transition of power.

I doubt that history will be kind to Pence - but maybe future historians will acknowledge that things could have been a lot worse if Pence had acted affirmatively to further Trump's attempts to overturn the valid election.  

I recognize and appreciate that it is easy for the half of the country who loathed Trump from day 1 to see Pence as nothing but a toady.  That is CNN's message right?  But did Pence do anything to thwart the certification of the election as Trump demanded?  I don't think so, but of course could have missed something.

Jim

Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

And none too soon since we have a failed vaccine distribution, 

That could be true in California.  Here and in Indiana, states my family live in, the vaccine distribution is proceeding nicely.  Both my parents have been vaccinated (still need the 2nd shot) and my son in healthcare has been vaccinated fully.

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

Did you miss that in my posting?  I said flat out, he's been against Trump.  Is this news?  

I'm curious if you could see yourself voting for Trump in a primary again.  I know it is tough to view in a vacuum,  but let's say he was in a primary between Rubio, Romney, Haley, Cheney, Pence, and Cruz.  Any chance you would vote for Trump in that field?

Any once or future conservative ought to feel free to answer.  I would vote for any of those candidates over Trump.  It would not be close in my case.

Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

It's true in most of the country...

I'm not so sure about that.  More importantly, If I understand it correctly, the vaccine roll out is a state by state thing.  The Feds have little to do with it.  Some states will be efficient and effective.  Other states will be rolling disasters.  

Jim