Posts Made By: James Brown

Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer

I have no plans to take the jab and plan to rely on the natural immunity afforded by my having already had covid unless definitive proof is offered why I should.....and that has not happened yet. Being self-employed there is no leverage to get me to take the jab either. Peer pressure as a result of others fears carries no water here......

Hi Greg:

I honestly have no problem with this approach.  You at least will keep an open mind and seem to be able to consider "the jab" if studies show that natural immunity (or vaccine immunity) wears off over time and we are still at high infection rates. 

But what about people who have no natural immunity?  Lots of them are clogging our ERs as we speak.  Wouldn't you counsel them to get vaccinated before they have the sometimes unpleasant or dangerous experience of developing natural immunity?  Jim

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

JB:  do we also agree that rational healthy people should get vaccinated, to avoid getting sick and risking serious disease in the first place?

ME: The diffference between you and I is that I still believe in the rights of people to do what they wish to do with their own bodies, and if they choose not to get vaccinated, that's their business, not mine to say, and certainly not mine to dictate to them and force them to do so, by Gov't bureaucrats who change their minds weekly.

You know what I find interesting about your so-called conservative positions?  

I find it quite interesting that you believe that its a mother's decision to be able to kill her child in the womb up to 13 weeks into the pregnancy and you think that neither gov't or anyone else has the right to tell her she cannot, yet you seem to be so on board with a gov't that wants to involve itself in my EVERY OTHER PERSONAL DECISION about my body and what I CHOOSE to put into it?

You apparently have absolutely no problem whatsoever with a gov't that orders  me to shut down my business with threat of fines and imprisonment, and now is roundaboutly ordering me to get a vaccine, lest I suffer their severe economic and political consequences.  

Why is that?  

Nevermind, that was a rhetorical question as I already know your answer.  

You are totally in the weeds Rich.  I am not talking about government mandates.  I am talking about the choices rational people should be making (in my opinion of course).   This is a point of discussion.  There is a big difference between me believing that rational people, especially those with no natural immunity, ought to get vaccinated and a government mandate.  We can discuss my position on government mandates in this context later if you want.  But for now, I am still curious whether you would argue (as a point of "between you and me" discussion) that people with no natural immunity have any rational reasons not to get vaccinated.  

My positions on abortion and Roe are well documented here.  It's enough now to say that you ignored my documented positions, and missed on your guess.  Badly.  But let's not talk about abortion now, OK?  At least not until we are done with the current topic. 

Jim

Originally Posted by James Lacey

Did you have the delta variant? Probably not, since delta has only been here a few months. Get the shot.

We are no longer in the nascent days of this pandemic.  A myriad of recent studies from the CDC shows that immunity from the jab is far better than any other source. It doesn't have anything to do with fear or politics or controversy. There is more than enough objective evidence to support the widespread use of the vaccine. No amount of bandwagon evidence or credentialism from Rich will ever outweigh the by now overwhelming scientific evidence that supports the safeness and effectiveness of the vaccine.

This is a great post.  Friend to friend it certainly makes sense to me for everyone to get the shot(s). 

Preemptively, I do want to say that this does not mean that I am in favor of criminalizing any one's personal refusal to get vaccinated and I am not in favor of late term abortions or whatever red-herring Rich might come up with.  I do accept the decision of any private or public institution to require vaccination if they choose to.  Same as I accept the universal requirement of childhood vaccines for attendance at public school and many jobs.

James, you have read far more about this than I have.  I'm basically taking it as a matter of faith or common sense that having the infection affords some level of immunity for a while.  I believe severe repeat infections are still rare.  But like the common cold, I expect that immunity to wane rapidly and I expect the corona virus to mutate rapidly, so that we will probably be getting annual vaccinations for Covid 19, so long as it remains lethal.  Small price to pay for normality and good health.

Jim

Hi all:

The subject has turned to humor, and what is, or is not, objectively funny.   

Consider the "Seal of the Democratic Party" that Steven posts quite often.  It might have been funny the first time, to some.  But something that relies upon ridiculing one tribe is probably only funny to insiders from another tribe who really want to ridicule the first tribe.  In this case Republicans or conservatives who find humor in ridiculing Democrats or liberals.    

Rush made zillions employing that sort of humor.  Historically, Blacks, Jews, Catholics, American Indians, Italians, Irish, actually just about any identifiable group has been the butt of sometimes vicious "ridicule" jokes that really aren't objectively funny, but which are loved by the insiders who want to ridicule those particular "others".  In my opinion, These sorts of jokes are less about humor than they are about signaling which side of some social fence the joke-teller might be on (specifically, the "correct" side).  

Sometimes, I suppose these sorts of us-against-them jokes are objectively funny to a broader audience than the in-group.  I think they are usually not.  Ridicule is a pretty low form of humor.  I doubt that an apolitical person (my wife for instance) would find the "Seal" or Greg's troll all that funny.  These sorts of tribal ridicule jokes don't age well.  After a while, especially if they are repeated too often, (e.g. the "Seal") any objective original humor is lost.  At that point the joke is just a cheap shot that is not leveled for humor, but becomes shorthand for something fairly aggressive and nasty.

Just my thoughts, Jim   

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

And we too are equally shocked at the idea that the resident RINO would cheer your recent posting and stroke you, telling you "that was a great post James", while regularly ignoring everything going on with the Leftist Democrats here as well as Jim ignoring your obvious hypocrisy in attacking any doctor or study that disagrees with your leftist agenda. 

I notice that he never calls you out on that.  I wonder why?  

LOL.  Gee shocker there.  

In context, James clearly meant Jim Moscheck.  

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

And we too are equally shocked at the idea that the resident RINO would cheer your recent posting and stroke you, telling you "that was a great post James", while regularly ignoring everything going on with the Leftist Democrats here as well as Jim ignoring your obvious hypocrisy in attacking any doctor or study that disagrees with your leftist agenda. 

I notice that he never calls you out on that.  I wonder why?  

LOL.  Gee shocker there.  

FWIW, I don't often call out James because he explains his positions well, he avoids obvious logical fallacies, he is keenly perceptive, and I learn a lot from his posts even if we ultimately do not agree 100%  Also, he treats me with similar respect.  He never misstates my position, even if he disagrees.  

So why would I call him out?   

Jim

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

I find your stance on abortion through the 1st trimester, which you've stated here before to NOT agree with (abortions), but yet don't seem to have much outrage about it, to be fairly inconsistent, considering how vocal you are about people taking the vaccines.

What I am saying is that you seem to be far more outraged about people NOT taking a gov't mandated vaccine, and are very vocal about it, yet you've never seemed on this forum to have the same outrage or concern about the idea of a woman killing her baby growing inside her, compared to your comments about those not taking the vaccine.

Please re-read my post to Greg.  He is the only one here that I know of who has chosen not to get vaccinated.  Did I sound outraged in that post?  Seriously?  Jim

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

Certainly.  I can answer that easily.  They have their own personal reasons.  

Some don't get vaccinated because they are pregnant and worry about side effects that MAY occur down the road.  

YOU certainly don't know the long term affects of these NEW TYPE Of Messenger RNA vaccines now do you?

Or are you just that arrogant that because YOU have decided there are no issues, then those who may still have fears are being unreasonable?

Is that YOUR position, that you're a know it all above them?

You tell me, why is that MANY medical PROFESSIONALS, both Nurses AND Doctors around the nation are hesitant to take the vaccine?

I've heard them, have you??

I've heard doctors say that so far they aren't convinced that it is totally safe.  

There are literally tens of thousands of Medical professionals, both Doctors and Nurses in this country who are willing to give up their jobs rather than taking these vaccines.  

Are you saying that you know MORE than the medical professionals out there?

Please answer that question.

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/labor/why-are-some-healthcare-workers-refusing-covid-vaccines

From that article above: Of the 11,387 people who responded, the overwhelming majority were in favor of getting the vaccine: just under 80% of the respondents said they had gotten a vaccine or were scheduled to receive one and 4.8% said they wanted to get it as soon as possible.


But there were still hundreds of healthcare workers who were vaccine hesitant — 954 individuals, or 8.4% of respondents, reported they would not be getting the vaccine for now. And 369 people, or 3.2% of survey participants, said they would “not ever” receive it.


So then, 954 of those Medical Practitioners said that they would not be getting the vaccine. 

What do YOU want to tell them and what do YOU want to educate them about?

Here's another article about healthcare workers:   https://www.aafp.org/journals/fpm/blogs/inpractice/entry/countering_vaccine_hesitancy.html

According to that article 78% of physicians intended to get the vaccine, which means that fully 22% either won't get the vaccine or are hesitant about it.

This is a huge false dichotomy you are drawing Rich.  I don't pretend to know everything.  I do side, on this issue, with the much larger percentages of scientists and doctors who think the vaccine is safe and effective and orders of magnitude safer than getting the disease.  There may be exceptions, like pregnant women, where extra caution is warranted.  

So I stand by my original opinion that there is no particularly rational reason (in the vast majority of cases) why one would not get vaccinated.  I'm obviously not talking about special cases like those allergic to the vaccine.  I'm also expressing an opinion, so the bulk of your post, things like the following merely obscure any point you may have had:  "What would YOU Like to tell those 22% of physicians about the vaccine and what method would YOU use, to scold them and to publicly shame them as to why they aren't as smart as you?"  For what it is worth, I doubt that 22% of physicians are still unvaccinated.  I'm sure there is some significant unvaccinated percentages though, and I don't think I'm any smarter than they are.  I simply have been persuaded by the vast majority of experts on this issue.   

Jim 

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

So then we're clear that I never said you were a proponent of late abortions which means that you were engaging in providing a red herring not me.

Thanks for the clarity.  

I'm not a proponent of any abortions.  You suggested I was, remember?

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

Are you saying that you know MORE than the medical professionals out there? 

Please answer that question. {Answer:  of course not, JLB}

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/labor/why-are-some-healthcare-workers-refusing-covid-vaccines

From that article above: Of the 11,387 people who responded, the overwhelming majority were in favor of getting the vaccine: just under 80% of the respondents said they had gotten a vaccine or were scheduled to receive one and 4.8% said they wanted to get it as soon as possible.

But there were still hundreds of healthcare workers who were vaccine hesitant — 954 individuals, or 8.4% of respondents, reported they would not be getting the vaccine for now. And 369 people, or 3.2% of survey participants, said they would “not ever” receive it.

Rich:

What is the point you are trying to make with the data you cite from Modern Health Care?  Please answer that question.

Jim