Posts Made By: Luca Grella

Don Barar said:

And why did humans get smarter? Certainly not because somebody in government said this is the direction were heading boys [snip]

I'll bet the people in the coal states that mine coal for a living will will be absolutely thrilled to learn that they are going to be put out of business.
[snip]

Papa Obama will put you on the government doll at the poverty level while you are waiting for new energy sources that might not come.

Rich liberals are always eager to offer solutions !!!!

Warmest regards,

Don

Don,
Obama has been voted by an unprecedented landslide, the goverment is us, you and me included.
What the goverment says is what the people says. Basic democratic concept.
The american people has decided clearly about the energy policy.
The people who worked in the coal mines will be happy to find better jobs elsewhere,
since other opportunities will arise.
The rich
speculators on the coal worker's health will have to speculate on something else.

The last Presidents who came from an elite was one from the hollywood elite
and the other one from the oil elite, while Obama comes from the foodstamp elite



Regards and clear unpolluted skies

Don Barar said:


The quote of Michelle Obama that I was referring to was "for the first time in my adult life I am proud to be an American". Her statement was made at a February 2008 campaign rally.
Don

That is not what she said , she said something really different:
"for the first time I am proud of my country"

many people in the last years were proud americans without been proud of their own country's policies.
That is a very legitimate thing to say. Dissent is noy anti patriotic.

On a side note is this how you republicans do politics today?, by pointing the finger and trying
to divide people on emotional issues?

*****************************************
Don said:
All I have done is paint Barak Hussein Obama with the labels he so richly deserves. He is a empty suited demagogue and a socialist that is attempting to create class warfare in the United States. Sounds like Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Khrushchev to me. All of us under his plans are going to end up with far less or much, much worse.

There is one more thing that I have learned from this exchange. The left is thin skinned. They do a great job at dishing up the criticism, but can not take it return.
**********************************
First of all it is not *socialism* it is comunism.
In a nutshell:
Marx and Engles were economists-philosphers, Lenin was a revolutionary who did not like Stalin at all.
Stalin was a psicopathic paranoid dictator who killed 10 milionns of his own people during the purges of the 1930 and because of that almost lost the war to hitler, who was a socialist, actually national socialist
krushev was a total nut case who find in Castro the perfect alter-ego to nuke USA.
Cuba, North Corea are comunist; sweden, france Germany etc.. have socialist democratic policies in a capitalistic economy end they don'have any class warfare.
None of these guys even remotely compares to Barak Obama who is a modern center-right politician, he has nothing of socialism policies, let alone comunists. Yours is not criticism, Don, it is just a misquote.

First of all the government is us the taxpayer including you, it is not some entity coming from mars.
The government, thus us, had to do what has been doing only to keep those companies in bussiness.
But the governemnt, us that is, cannot keep the people who bankrupted their own companies since that would have been incoherent.
The bonuses were paid even if they were not earned.
It had to take ownership because the taxpayer is doing and investmenmt believeing that the american industry will prevail, that is the modern center right part
For the russians prewar of the soviet union it was 6 month in jail if you only just arrived late at work.
Stalin wouldd have sent all those people who have run those bussiness into the ground to siberia including their parents relatives and friends,
and then he would have burned their towns to the ground, that is the comunist part.

Just look at the results of the last two polls.
The one on the economy showed that it is getting worse.
But ,actually, it has shown that it is *not* getting worse since the results
"staying the same "+ "getting better" outnumbered by far (about 7%!)the "getting worse" one.
So the result is : it is not getting worse.
The bottom line is that
polls can show almast anything you want and , usually, just a serve a political purpose.

Glenn Beck, who said that the President is a racist, gets to be insightful.
On the other hand the 85 years old wise guy who sees elements of racism in
the neo confederate rightwinger gets to be a demagogue.

I guess that after all Carter is right.

Robert Schmall said:

1. The leaders of a sovereign foreign nation are evil.
2. The citizens of that nation are equally guilty.
3. Therefore, the United States, as a Moral Nation, has the right to bomb that country.

What makes you think that the "citizens of that nation are equally guilty?"; haven't you seen the massive protests in baghdad
recently?
It realy hurts to say this, but
what makes you think that the US is still a moral nation?
perhaps you refer to the torture?
or to having invaded and occupied the wrong country after having killed many of its innocent civilians?
or maybe you refer to letting 50,000 of its own people die every year for the lack
of proper health care?

You can go ahead and bomb that country but don't look for an alibi in morality,
that does not work.

Robert Schmall said:

Luca Grella said:

[QUOTE]Robert Schmall said:

1. The leaders of a sovereign foreign nation are evil.
2. The citizens of that nation are equally guilty.
3. Therefore, the United States, as a Moral Nation, has the right to bomb that country.

What makes you think that the "citizens of that nation are equally guilty?"; haven't you seen the massive protests in baghdad
recently?
It realy hurts to say this, but
what makes you think that the US is still a moral nation?
perhaps you refer to the torture?
or to having invaded and occupied the wrong country after having killed many of its innocent civilians?
or maybe you refer to letting 50,000 of its own people die every year for the lack
of proper health care?

You can go ahead and bomb that country but don't look for an alibi in morality,
that does not work.



Why do you think I put a question mark after "syllogism"? You have completely missed the point: NO COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT TO DESTROY INNOCENT LIVES.
Two of the three points in my little piece of sarcasm were obviously and intentionally false: numbers 2 and 3. Some of the people who advocate bombing another country think that way and missed the point a long time ago.

Sorry for not getting the sarcasm,
and I am glad that you made your point with capital letters.

Don Barar said:

Spoken like Neville Chamberlain. "Peace in our time."

Don Barar

When Chamberlain spoke those words Hitler already took Austria and Checoslovachia,
a British declaration of war on Germany would have probably got Hitler de-legitimized and
promptly court martialed and executed by its own generals for treason.

A missle attack on Iran would be as stupid as the words of Chamberlain, because it would legitimize
the revolutionary guard and the ayatollah regime. Ahmedinejad is longing and praying for a US strike because that would legitimize
the regime and compact the Iranian poeople against the common enemy.


By the way I am sure you have noticed that , immediatly after the President's speech to the
Arab world , the Hezbollah lost the elections in Lebanon and, a civil and peaceful uprising startedin Iran.
That is because most of the fundamentalist rethoric is based on the fact that US is the evil enemy.

This problem has absolutely non military solution, it is up to the Arab people to solve it.

Les Chambers said:


Actually the main source of instability in the middle east is Israel. It sits on stolen, occupied land and over the last 50 yrs it has killed far more innocent civilians than Iran or any Arab country.

The land was not stolen;many jews were already there and many others escaped from the nazi europe to go to palestine. These jews refugees bought most of the land that makes today Israel. The palestinians one one hand were very happy to see them coming, because this migration made the value of their land soar, but on the other hand the
mufti of palestine became an ally of Hitler and an officer of the SS to promote their extermination.
He partecipated in the holocaust and was sough as a war criminal for war crimes
he committed in Hungaria and Croatia. So part of the Arab world is not totally innocent either.
As far as civilians killed by the IDF you are probably right, except that, if you look at the facts on a case by case basis, you will realize that the IDF not always
had a direct responsability.