Posts Made By: Inge Skauvik

Hi all,

Thank you for your reports.
NGC1365 is obviously a very fine object. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a 33-inch scope, but I hope that some detail can be captured with 12.5-inches from a dark site.
NGC1300 in Eridanus is another very beautiful barred spiral sometimes appears in textbook photos. How does it compare with 1365 through the eyepiece?

Inge S

I got my copy of the Pocket Star Atlas in the mail yesterday. I just had time to leaf through it, but I noticed that in the region we are discussing now two dwarf galaxies are located. In fact the way they are plotted may be a bit misleading, because the symbols in the map are huge compared with the other galaxies, and immediately draw attention. I'm speaking about the Sculptor and Fornax dwarfs, and as far as I can recollect they are almost impossible to detect visually even with relatively high integrated brightness.
Have anyone spotted these phantom galaxies, or maybe the associated globular clusters? I think that in the Fornax dwarf galaxy at least one of the globulars is within range for moderate telescopes, and likely to be detected before the galaxy itself.

Inge S

Mike,

Since galaxies come in all kinds of sizes and shapes, I think it is not possible to give a generally valid answer to your question.

I use low magnification for galaxies like M31 and M33. My telescope has more or less the same aperture as yours but the focal length is different. A 24mm Panoptic gives 63x with my scope, and this is ok with M31. For M33 I generally see more with my 13mm Nagler (115x). I use magnifications in the same range for large, phantom galaxies with low surface brightness, and if I want to view groups of galaxies (M84/M86 with neighbours, NGC3190 group, M81/M82 etc.)

I enjoy looking for detail in spiral galaxies, and in most cases I find it necessary to use higher magnification in such cases. For M101 I use 115x since it is so large. Its spiral features are subtle, but under dark, clear skies it appears as the most beautiful of the spirals in my telescope.

M51 is easier. For most detail I use a 9mm Nagler (167x). Possibly I would even go up to 214x (7mm eyepiece) if I had one in my collection. With my present experience a magnification of 150 - 250x is best for smaller spiral galaxies with a 12-inch. Among the easier spirals are M99 and M61. They are quite small, and you are likely to miss the spiral structure if you use too low magnification. M83 is larger, and almost as easy as M51. M100 is a hard nut for a 12-inch. According to some observing guides it is doable, though.

I also find the 150 - 250x magnification range to detect dust clouds in objects like M82, NGC3556, M64, NGC4565 and NGC891.

I presently own a pure TeleVue line of eyepieces. However, I also have good experience with UO Orthos. On one special occasion I also tried a narrow field Monocentric eyepiece. The view of M82 through this one (I think it was with a magnification around 170x) was unforgettable. The amount of bright sky background was cut down to a minimum, and therefore the galaxy appeared brighter than through a wide field eyepiece.

My conclusion is that the eyepiece design or brand is of less importance than the magnification (or exit pupil). The rule from old times of always using the lowest possible magnification does not apply any more. Much of the joy of observing is to have the option to make some trial and error. Different magnifications and fields of view give different impressions of almost any object.

Inge S

Very few of you claim to have observed galaxy NGC3556. Maybe the reason is that you don't realise that it is the same as M108.

Inge S

I deliberately waited before stating my own achievements with the 12.5-inch. Shortly I'll sum up the contributions from all, hoping to be able to provide a list with the features ordered by difficulty.

Here are my scores:

1: Dust bands in M82 A
2: Spiral arms of M61 A (Very dark skies, high magnification)
3: Equatorial dust band of NGC891 A (high magnification)
4: Spiral arms of M33 A
5: The obscuring cloud of M64 ("Black eye") B (high magnification)
6: Spiral arms of M51 A
7: Emission nebula, NGC604 in M33 A
8: Dust bands in NGC3556 A
9: Spiral arms of M99 A (high magnification)
10: One dust band in the Andromeda galaxy A
11: Spiral arms of M101 A
12: Equatorial dust band of NGC3628 (The one near M65/66) B
13: Two dust bands in the Andromeda galaxy C (A with 18-inch)
14: Emission nebulae in the spiral arms of M101 A
15: Spiral arms of M100 D
16: Equatorial dust band of NGC4565 (Coma Berenices) B
17: "Bend" of galaxy NGC4656 (Canes Venatici) A (Very dark skies)
18: Spiral arms of NGC2403 C (Observed very few times)
19: Spiral arms of NGC2903 B
20: Bridge between M51 and companion galaxy D

I quite often see statements from persons being able to see the "bridge" between M51 and its companion.
(Maybe not a bridge, but rather ability to trace the spiral arm out to the position of the companion.)
I find this very difficult even under very dark skies.
Also I find the "black eye" of M64 very difficult. Part of the trick seems to be to use high magnification.

I have spent much time with the three galaxies, M61, M99 and M100. Once again magnification turns out to be important. With an exit pupil under 2 mm the spiral structure of M61 and M99 isn't too difficult to see even with direct vision. In M100, on the other hand, I haven't been able to detect a trace of spiral structure.

In the large edge-on galaxy I stated a "B" for the equatorial band. Actually it may be an "A". I have never seen any records of visual observation of this feature in any observing guides, at least not with small or middle-sized telescopes.

I find the "bend" of NGC4656 to be quite difficult even under dark skies. Perhaps I should have stated "B" rather than "A" for this object. Maybe I should have used higher magnification.

Inge S

It was a bit interesting to compare the statements about how different observers are able to see galactic detail. The number of participants is limited, of course, and the "statistics" presented here shouldn't be taken too seriously. Some general trends are, however, obvious.

The aperture range is huge - from 63mm and up to 40 inches (about 1000mm). The advantage of large aperture for galactic detail is obvious, and hardly a surprise.

Here is the list of objects ordered from "easy" to "difficult" based on your reports:

M82, dust bands
M31, one dust band
M64, obscuring cloud
M51, spiral arms
NGC891, equatorial dust band
M31, two dust bands
M33, emission nebula NGC604
M101, spiral arms
NGC4565, equatorial dust band
NGC 3628, equatorial dust band
M51, bridge to companion
NGC4656, "bend"
M101, emission nebulae
M99, spiral arms
NGC2903, spiral arms
NGC3556, dust bands
NGC2403, spiral arms
M61, spiral arms
M100, spiral arms.

To some extent this is in accordance with my own experience, but I noted some deviations. Many observers claim to have seen the equatorial dust band of NGC891, while the dust band of NGC4565 is further down on the list. I would consider the dust band of NGC891 and the "bend" of NGC4656 to be about equally difficult. The reason for the different rating may be that NGC891 is more frequently observed. I would even consider the spiral arms of M61 to be in the same league as the dust band of 891.
I also find the obscuring clouds of NGC3556 (M108) to be pretty obvious even with smaller aperture, while I always had problems with the "black eye", M64.

The deviations may partly be explained by the way the final rating was calculated. I simply multiplied the number of "A"s by 3, "B"s by 2 and "C"s by 1 and added everything together. Less frequently observed objects, therefore, got too low scores.

The "bottom 5" objects ranked by popularity are:

M61
NGC2903
NGC4656
NGC3556
NGC2403

These are all very good objects. Have a closer look at them, and don't forget to report your observations under this forum!

Inge S

Michael,

Like many other galaxies, M33 has large, luminous emission nebulae in its spiral arms. Some of these are within reach of amateur telescopes, the most noticeable one being NGC604. It appears as a well defined nebulous patch in my 12.5-inch, and I suspect that this is the object you saw.

Having seen this one, you may look for other emission regions in M33 too. Later on you may want to search for similar nebulae in M101 and even M74. In the more distant galaxies the emission nebulae appear almost star-like. For me the observation guide of Kepple & Sanner has been a great help to spot and identify such features.

Inge S

Hello everyone,

The double star forum needs posts. I think this thread should run there.

By the way, there should be more posts under this forum too. I can't contribute much myself, being prevented from observing by awful weather conditions.

Inge S

One additional comment:

On some occasions I have commented on posts, that they probably belong to a different forum. If anybody find that I'm too restrictive, please give your feedback.

Any good ideas that can help making this forum more interesting are welcome.

Inge S

I'm glad to see several observation reports already. I'll be travelling a few days, but I hope to make some contribution myself when I return.

Inge S