Posts Made By: Rod Kaufman

Lindsey Graham say so:
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/571067-graham-says-us-will-be-going-back-to-afghanistan
South Carolina's economy depends on it...

Originally Posted by Richard Davis

Fauci should be in Jail, instead the left will prop him up as they do all their criminals. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/top-scientist-on-new-report-about-research-in-chinese-labs-its-clear-fauci-was-untruthful

Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, reviewed the material and told The Intercept that the “viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell.”

“The documents make it clear that assertions by the NIH Director, Francis Collins, and the NIAID Director, Anthony Fauci, that the NIH did not support gain-of-function research or potential pandemic pathogen enhancement at WIV are untruthful,” he wrote.

Fauci pushed and pushed to say that the Virus could not have been developed in a lab, and leftist tools here bought his bullshit, hook, line, and sinker. 

It is now clear that Fauci has been lying all along to cover his ass.  

So Dr Fauci and Dr Collins don't have the right to defend their good names and debunk what this guy thinks he knows to be gospel and because he says so? 
Dr Fauci is a criminal? In what court was that decided or is that because Rich Davis says so?  

"On the other hand, Wertheim and Garry said they didn’t believe the paper referenced gain-of-function experiments. "Although this study uses recombinant RNA technology, I would not consider it a gain-of-function study," said Wertheim. The researchers "did not continue to let these viruses propagate in cell lines to adapt and enhance their pathogenicity or transmissibility."
"It might seem strange that scientists could disagree over a question as seemingly clear-cut as whether or not a specific experiment involved gain-of-function research. However, the term "gain-of-function" refers to a wide variety of interventions, and the definition has shifted over time, making it easy for scientists to talk past one another."
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/may/17/debating-origins-covid-19-virus-what-we-know-what-/

Originally Posted by James Brown

Hi James, Rod:

Understood.  Still, if the original Covid 19 virus escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology it is an enormously big deal.  The world wide death toll is 4,624,078 and counting.  And that does not include the uncounted dead in India, China and elsewhere.  You get my point I am sure.

Fauci has approached this topic and in particular any possible US support for Chinese research into bat-born corona viruses in a very political manner.  Whether the research was useful and typical, or whether it was beyond what is considered unreasonably dangerous are good questions to ask.  No reason to get hung up on whether the research meets the current or past definition of "gain of function."  Bottom line, this issue is not a couple of scientists "talking past each other."  This looks/sounds a lot more like a political dissembling.  I hope we get to the bottom of it eventually.

Jim

Jim,
I think you're confusing and conflating two issues here: 1. Gain OF Function 2. Lab Leak Theory. They're not one in the same. Fauci, like the other scientists in question here, have asked for more evidence for #1 and have not discounted it. They'd like to get to the bottom of it as much as we do. What has been politicized here by Rand Paul and others is a general misconception that ANY nuanced portion of a grant, such as the work cited in some those 900 pages that a conservative media site had the Rutger's scientist review, and one in whom had already made up his mind in his past statements that gain of function had already occurred, is now interpreted by them as evidence of a lie being perpetrated by Fauci and others in some sort of "gotcha" moment. It's far from it.
There's no smoking gun here either for or against the lab leak theory or for perjury on the part of Fauci or other scientists that contend there is no gain of function. Much of the consternation regarding the lab leak theory could be resolved by a cooperative Chinese government but that's not going to happen. That said, I think China should still be required to pay reparations for knowingly allowing its national to travel and spread the infection to other countries.

Originally Posted by James Brown

Hi Rod:

I understand that I'm conflating the lab leak theory and the possibility of US support for gain of function research.  They are linked however.  If the virus did leak, and it was enhanced at the lab to be more infectious to humans, it is a bigger deal from a culpability standpoint.  Whether we share in the culpability (or not) is a legitimate issue to investigate.  Clearly we need proof of a lab leak before the gain of function research and who paid for it is all that important to the big picture.

Some in the press and some here are fixated on whether or not Fauci lied about the US investing in gain of function research.  Fixated to the point where I think they miss the big picture.  

Also, I'm not convinced that Fauci wants to get to the bottom of it at all.  He behaves like a politician.  I hear lots of CYA in his rhetoric.  Also, he may now be open to the lab leak theory, but he sure was not open to that theory at the beginning.  Why not?

Jim

Well, I agree and disagree with some of your points. Certainly, the lab leak theory needs to take priority along with continuing pressure on China by all affected countries to allow transparency in determining what occurred in the beginning days of the pandemic in China. The fact that they don't and are currently engaged in a disinformation campaign against the US is further evidence of a coverup on their part. As for Fauci, I see and hear a frustrated scientist and physician who is fed up with the likes of Rand Paul and others like him who are constantly spreading misinformation about masking and vaccinating and are therefore contributing to the continuing horrific pandemic in this country. He adamantly opposes their ludicrous and unfounded arguments and I don't see or hear the "CYA" rhetoric that you refer to.

Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer

I subscribe to the "where there is smoke there is usually fire" theory......lots of smoke on this one on both issues ie gain of function and origination. Little doubt there are flames yet to be shown.

That figures since it the same "theory" you've previously stated in respect to MAGA media reported voter fraud which is the same nonsense that's been thrown out of court in multiple jurisdictions multiple times in multiple states across the country and whose attorneys have been sanctioned by the courts for doing so...

Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer

Yep....they have managed to quell the flames in most cases so far.....

You've obviously missed the point: there aren't any flames to quell, only smoke and mirrors...

Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer

So you say.....lol

Lol!  So say the courts...

Originally Posted by James Lacey

There's no point in trying to reason with these people anymore. No amount of facts are going to sway them. Heck, 1,500 Americans a day are dying right now because they refuse to accept facts. And most of those are Republican Americans in red states. That's enough to cause a political realignment, especially when you factor in how many of the survivors are going to be disenchanted with the Republican party. Just wait till they finally wake up to the reality that they have been lied to after their loved ones are dead from what is now a completely preventable disease.

The Republican party is the procovid party and I doubt that'll change no matter how many will die. Today, I heard Joni Ernst of Iowa, a state which is currently experiencing an increase in covid cases, particularly in kids as well as the Mu variant, claim that she "and her colleagues" believe that the Biden administration's push for a vaccine mandate is merely an attempt at a diversion from 9/11. Where the hell do they even come up with this crap!?

Originally Posted by Rod Kaufman

The Republican party is the procovid party and I doubt that'll change no matter how many will die. Today, I heard Joni Ernst of Iowa, a state which is currently experiencing an increase in covid cases, particularly in kids as well as the Mu variant, claim that she "and her colleagues" believe that the Biden administration's push for a vaccine mandate is merely an attempt at a diversion from 9/11. Where the hell do they even come up with this crap!?

Howard Stern sums it up:
"When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say it's mandatory to get vaccinated? F--- 'em. F--- their freedom. I want my freedom to live,"
"If you have a heart attack or any kind of problem, you can't even get into the E.R. And I'm really of mind to say, 'Look, if you didn't get vaccinated and you got Covid, you don't get into a hospital.'"
For emphasis, he added, "You had the cure and you wouldn't take it."
Speaking on his SiriusXM satellite radio show about the recent deaths of several anti-vaxxer radio hosts, Stern said people who won't get vaccinated are "idiots" and called for vaccinations to be mandatory."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/entertainment/howard-stern-vaccine-comments/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold