Posts Made By: Rod Kaufman

Originally Posted by Greg Shaffer

That is not a standard I would apply so the answer is nope...... You do know what RINO means right? Did you misunderstand me? She opened her tirade in the hearings with straight up lies. That is the standard I judge her position by and one that can be applied to either party unfortunately. 

Since you believe in Trump's lies, including the big lie of election fraud, who the hell are you to be an arbiter of truth?

"US Capitol rioter who carried weapon loaded with hollow-point bullets pleads guilty"
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/17/politics/mark-mazza-capitol-riot/index.html

"Rioter who witnessed Ashli Babbitt shooting sentenced"
"Thomas Baranyi, a January 6 defendant who witnessed Babbitt's shooting and was sentenced on Friday, expressed remorse for his participation in the Capitol riot and not doing more to help Babbitt."
"DC District Judge James Boasberg sentenced Baranyi to 90 days in prison."
"Baranyi said that Babbitt "tried to climb through. She wasn't listening and there were guns drawn." A US Capitol Police investigation found in August 2021 that the officer who shot Babbitt did so "lawfully and within Department policy."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/17/politics/couy-griffin-capitol-riot-new-mexico-plea/index.html

Originally Posted by Mel Maki

I think they will be in court for a long time. What's a good guess, two or three years? Longer?
I have seen some lawyers say a criminal conviction is not a slam dunk. How much of this is exaggeration. We have our favorite sources but non-lawyers can try to keep up with the developments but it is a for sure fact nearly impossible. And having a personal stake in seeing our least liked politicians fall on their faces makes it even more difficult.

"And having a personal stake in seeing our least liked politicians fall on their faces makes it even more difficult."
What?! You are too far gone...

Originally Posted by Jim Moscheck

Mel claims he's watched most of the hearings but that doesn't mean he has to believe any of the republicans that have testified so far. And it's been ALL republicans testifying, not one democrat. Trump's complaining today it's all one sided, well, as chairman Benny Thompson has said - he's more that welcome to come in and tell his side under oath and finally reveal to us all of the evidence he has for the massive voter fraud he is still claiming happened.  

I can see Trump, after being sworn in at the committee meeting, presenting his "proof" of voter fraud: a video recording of the movie, "2000 mules"! Did you catch Bill Barr's response to 2000 mules during his taped deposition? He was laughing his ass off! Alternately, Trump might submit a huge binder containing his "evidence"of voter fraud. It'd be similar to the huge binder containing Trump's health care plan to replace Obamacare that his aides gave to an MSM reporter. It contained memos and form letters and anything but an actual plan. In Trump world, it's not the content that counts, it's the size of the binder!

Originally Posted by Mel Maki

He will probably avoid jail. He waved a very amateur report about voting machines claiming it will win the election for him. It is more difficult to convict him if he really believes a report on voting machines can bring him victory.

"He waived a very amateur report about voting machines"... And right wing media went with it and so did his followers and while we won't get into the fact that MAGA media is seeing the lawsuits against them by Dominion and Smartmatic proceed forward in the courts for accountability, that's obviously not all Trump did in regards to incitement over a bogus theory that the election was somehow "stolen", a claim he knew to be false, and continues to lie about on a weekly basis. But here's the gist being presented by the Jan 6th committee: 
"The House January 6 Committee has started making a public case against former President Donald Trump and his allies in a series of hearings, arguing the former president “oversaw and coordinated” an unlawful plan to overturn the 2020 election".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/06/14/can-trump-be-charged-as-result-of-the-jan-6-committee-investigation-heres-what-to-know/?sh=16e11eb649e9
Ultimately, as the article notes, it's solely up to the DOJ to prosecute. We'll all have to wait and find out. However, Trump could also very well face criminal prosecution for attempting to do essentially the same thing in the state of Georgia where the case shaping up against him there seems clear... 

New poll: more Americans think Trump should face criminal charges and that the January 6 committee is fair and impartial:
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/3529190-more-americans-say-trump-should-face-charges-in-connection-with-jan-6-poll/

Originally Posted by James Lacey

Mel,

Most democracies don't die due to a sudden violent coup. Instead, it's a slow slide into authoritarianism. There are a lot of things that protect our Democracy, such as the separation of powers. However, our routine and unwritten standards of behavior are also vitally important, which keep us a democracy. Two crucial ones are mutual toleration and institutional forbearance. In other words, our political opponents are not our enemies, and we don't abuse our political authority to harm our political opponents. Trump violated both of these norms in ways we have never seen before. He is more than willing to burn down our norms and institutions for his gain and ego; in my estimation and many others, he is a dangerous anti-democratic demagogue. I agree that Trump would not have ultimately succeeded in staying in power. It would have taken months to undo what he tried to accomplish, but I'm sure our "guardrails" would eventually have removed him from office. But the chaos Trump unleashed throughout his term in office and the constitutional crisis he almost precipitated significantly damaged our Democracy. It doesn't matter that he was not successful. What matters is that he tried, and he has done all of us and our nation a great disservice. I want every aspect of his abuse of power and illegal activity documented and exposed to the light of day, so it's much harder for him or any other demagogue who might rise to power to do the same all over again.

So, I take it you don't agree with this GOP candidate: "Greitens urges supporters to order their ‘RINO Hunting Permit’ in gun-heavy video"
                                                                              “The RINO feeds on corruption and is marked by the stripes of cowardice. … There’s no bagging limit, no tagging 
                                                                              limit, and it doesn’t expire until we save our country,”
                                                                              "Greitens, who is seen holding a long shotgun for the duration of the video, is surrounded by men in U.S. armed forces camouflage uniforms. He also urged his supporters to join the “MAGA crew” and to get a “RINO hunting permit” after he rushed into an empty house while his crew tossed in a flash grenade."
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3529772-greitens-urges-supporters-to-order-their-rino-hunting-permit-in-gun-heavy-video/
MAGA candidates...

Originally Posted by Mel Maki

So now it is Pence that saved our democracy? Our constitution prevents losing presidents from installing themselves. I said you were a blockhead because you said I have too much invested in this "big lie." That is bs so look in YOUR mirror and maybe you will be able to realize what a bunch of nonsense these Dems have you caught up in.

"Our constitution prevents losing presidents from installing themselves."
But that didn't prevent Trump from attempting a coup, now did it? Nor did it prevent Trump from pressuring Pence to refuse to certify the electoral votes, now did it? Nor did it prevent a bunch of Republican congressmen from voting to refuse certification of the election, now did it?

Originally Posted by Mel Maki

A coup? With no guns?
No laws prevent people from attempting. You and your big hype machine should go scream at the moon.

Various rioters had guns and that's already been established.  However, "A tweet, which has received thousands of engagements since it was posted on June 11, 2022, shows a clip from Tucker Carlson Tonight in which Carlson says the events of Jan. 6 did not amount to an insurrection because none of the protesters were carrying guns."  "However, not only is there substantial and clear evidence that there were protesters with guns, it's also not clear why Carlson and other commentators believe that guns are a defining character of an insurrection."
"Let's start with the gun charges:
In April, 72-year-old Lonnie Coffman of Falkville, Alabama, was sentenced to four years in prison for bringing loaded guns, ammunition and Molotov cocktail ingredients to Washington on Jan. 6."
"In March 2022, 49-year-old Texan Guy Reffitt, was convicted (among other charges) for being unlawfully present on Capitol grounds while possessing a firearm and transporting firearms during civil disorder."
"A Department of Justice indictment from January 2021 also states that Christopher Alberts, Maryland, was found carrying a Taurus G2C semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds on January 6."
"Off-duty Drug Enforcement Administration agent Mark Sami Ibrahim, 32, was also indicted by a grand jury for bringing a firearm within the United States Capitol and its grounds."
"In an article for Newsweek, Nick Suplina and Justin Wagner of Everytown for Gun Safety said they had identified "12 individuals allegedly tied to the events of Jan. 6 who were arrested in Washington, D.C., and charged with firearms offenses."
Then read the rest of the recent Newsweek article detailing the issue(S)
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-there-armed-protesters-capitol-january-6-1715326
Oh, and attempting a coup is against the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385