Which would you choose?

Started by Ed Ashton, 11/19/2003 09:45PM
Posted 11/19/2003 09:45PM Opening Post
The Denkmeier Standard with the refractor package or the Black Knight package that includes the set of 24mm Ultra eyepieces? I own a TV 102 and I'm mostly interested in lunar and planetary viewing, but will eventually add a premium 10 or 11" dob for deep-sky. I currently own a Nagler 3-6mm zoom eyepiece and plan on adding another for my high-power viewing, but I would have to buy a low-power set for deep sky. I wear glasses with a mild prescription, but have always taken them off for single-eyed viewing. The difference between my left and right eye is not great, so I don't think I need extra-cost diopter adjustments, because both bino's already allow some small amount of diopter adjustments, right?

Pros and cons: I like the lower-power OCA of the Denk's, the wider clear aperture that allows lower-power eyepieces, and the very attractive 0% financing deal. The Black Knights are a great value, are lighter, and the package saves me from having to buy a low-power eyepiece set. Both are comparable in price. I can afford to spend more than what these two packages cost, but I'm wondering if I need to.

So back to my question....for planetary viewing, do you feel that either has an optical advantage? Are the Siebert 24mm Ultra eyepieces good? Has anyone directly compared these two binos? Would I be happier with the Denk when I get the dob?

And finally....is the premium Denk II with it's 1/8-wave optics noticably better for lunar and planetary viewing, enough to justify the higher price?

And
Posted 11/20/2003 12:39AM #1
Hi Ed,

This looks like an easy decison to me. Call Russ at Denkmeier and discuss the benefits of the Denk II and place an order for whichever Denk makes sense after the conversation. Why was that easy, because of the things you said about yourself in you post. You own a TV 102 and Nagler 3-6 Zoom, and you're planning a "premium" mid sized DOB. The equipment you choose to buy is some of the best - premium stuff and not many compromises made there.

The Black Nights appear to be good values - "almost as good and much cheaper" - are the qualifiers I always seem to hear about them (don't know myself - I haven't viewed through them). I don't hear that from people that buy the Denks....people that I trust seem to like the design, price, quality, service, and performance - and consder them to be good values too. TV and AP/Baader are also very good units, but you didn't ask about those - and I don't know that it would change my recommendation if you had.

The bottom line: I just don't think you'd be happy, after all is said and done, with almost as good - and they cost less. Stay with what you've been doing - buy the best quality and performance you can afford, you'll be glad you did IMHO.

Mike

http://www.DarkSights.com
Posted 11/20/2003 03:41AM #2
Hi Ed,

I think you are on the right track. Asking for people who have TRIED both is the best angle. Opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone has one. And these opinions would mean more if you have tried at least one of the products, but better if you tried both. I have had extensive opportunity to try both. To be perfectly honest I cannot declare a winner. Of course this is excluding price issues. Here is the link to someone else who made a direct comparison between the Denk Standard and Black Nights. Read his comments at

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=1,2,3,4,5,8,10&Board=binoviewers&Number=3949&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

To nutshell it he said he could not declare a winner and either one would not disappoint. This is exactly how I feel. They both have factors in their favor. Denkmeier has a slightly lower power in their favor, whereas the Siebert version is a little bit shorter and more compact, which is nice in big dobs. Quality of view seems about the same in both and magnification very comparable. There is so much more that can be said here. But the bottom line is there has been many, many satisfied customers for both binos and that describes myself also. Both have excellent customer service and are willing to take the time to make things right for your scopes. So it is not quite as cut and dry as one might suggest. In fact, you may read through the archives of this binoviewer group to get some insight on where your advice is coming from. I personally consider myself friendly toward both companies. So I will not slant you in either direction.

Now as for the matter of the Denk II's. There is surprisingly little about these since they have been released. I briefly had a chance to try one and I have to agree with Todd Gross's assessment that there is little or no difference between the Denk II's and the Standard. In fact, the only real nod he gave between the two is the double diopter adjustments that were only available on the Denk II at that time. But now it is available also on the standard. But it looks like Siebert Optics is also coming out with their version. But since that is not your concern and these are an extra cost and not standard on any of their units we are left with Todd's ultimate conclusion. It was that the Denk II's and standards were roughly even. So what you get is really up to you. Guaranteed either the Denkmeier's or Siebert Black Nights will leave you smiling. Here is Todd Gross's link to the Binoviewer page where you can find the comments above as well as reviews on Siebert Products.

www.weatherman.com/nagler3.htm

DonR
Posted 11/20/2003 07:16AM #3
I think this ad is an interesting endorsement from someone who owned a BN and, in his words "upgraded" to Denk II's - check it out: http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=230209 Not a big deal, just exactly what I described.

In case you haven't found the all other Bino forums, here is another great source of information about bino's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/binoviewer/ There is a wealth of information about different brands included in the archives here.

Mike

http://www.DarkSights.com
Posted 11/20/2003 08:22PM #4
Thanks, everybody, for your recommendations, even though there seems to be no clear consensus on which I should choose (*sigh*). Maybe I'll just flip a coin.....
Posted 11/22/2003 02:33PM #5
Hi Ed,

I had a pair of Denk II, a Lomo, and now Blacknights. The quality of the machining of the Denk was first rate but they were heavy and I had trouble merging with them. I also noticed that the pair I received had a slightly pink color on one side of the unit. The Lomo had a deep yellow side. The Blacknights are clear on both sides. The Denk II when used with the OCS would come to focus in any of my refractors or newts, the BNs came with the 1.8 OCA and are a different story. The 1.8 OCA works in my Newts but I need a Barlow for the refractors. Siebert may have a solution for this but I only use the apos at high power anyway. I never compared them side by side but for planetary viewing I like the BNs the best. The other units introduced unnatural color which I found objectionable. The owners of both companies, in my experience, are dedicated and curteous professionals and I would recommend either. I would say that for the type of observing that I enjoy most, planets, lunar, and doubles, the Blacknights were the best choice for me.

Hope This Helps,

Steve