Image of the day

Captured by
Erwin Forbragd

M33 in Triangulum

My Account

New to Astromart?

Register an account...

Need Help?

You are confusing Socialism with Social Democracy

Started by troybunch, 06/19/2009 11:29AM
Posted 06/19/2009 11:29AM Opening Post
For some reason, a lot of you have no idea what the difference is between socialism with social democracy. I am NOT advocating socialism... here's your lesson for the day:

Socialism aims to achieve a more just society by putting the means of production in the hands of the government, it is against privatization.

Social democracy acknowledges a free market fails to automatically take into account certain goals our society as a whole values; like environmental protection, help in medical emergencies and social help. An unregulated free market ignores everybody who fails to contribute directly to economic growth - the sick, the old, the young, the poor, or the unlucky. Social Democracy includes the human wish not to see your neighbors starve the moment they can no longer be productive, and recognizes that one day you might be in that same situation.

The way it is typically done is to take away money from those who have plenty, usually by taxes, and give it to those who need it to survive. The government does this backed up by a democratic system to ensure this redistribution is considered just by the majority of people. Needless to say, a lot of people, like conservative Republicans, will bitch about it. But remember, you made this money in a system that is considered unjust by the majority of people. The outcome is a social market economy - one that combines a capitalist mode of production with the belief that society should protect all its members from economic and social need.

Now, rather than calling me and others names, like some adolescent, why don't you (Rich, Jim, and a few others), respond directly to this post. Tell us why you want our kids to go without health care, why we should have working families living in poverty, and why should we continue to let a small handful of rich, thieving corporate executives pilfer our wealth.

Posted 06/19/2009 04:29PM #1
Troy,

Good job on presenting some useful info for discussion! 8)

Brian, Nice off topic personal attack on Jim B. :C

Ok here is my concern with Social programs:

(*Disclaimer: I completely understand and agree that some social programs are needed and beneficial for a moral and just society!)

When dealing with democracys, and the ability for people to "vote" themselves into inclusion in these programs, soon the number of producers in the system could be less than the number of consumers. Then of course the system becomes inevitably unsustainable.

I agree that businesses do not regulate themselves and tend to be abusive. Laws and regulations are needed to protect everyone involved.

It seems to me, that in our current crisis, that enforcement and refinement of existing laws, not the governmental take over of industries, would be the better Rx for our country.
Posted 06/19/2009 07:58PM #2
Social Democracies can work in societies that generally represent a homogenous tribe of people that share common values and work together for their collective welfare.

However, we live in a multicultural society where one culture set the place up and made everyone wear pants, one culture is crying about all the litter and raking in casino cash, one culture is here illegally, two cultures are here because liberal American president's let their countries fall to communism, one culture is just bitter about things that happened 50 to 150 years ago, and one culture has been brought here because they did their math homework and large corporations find it cheaper to have them here. I can think of at least two of the aforementioned cultures that should not derive any benefit from my tax money. wink

[SIZE="Small"]------------
I have several telescopes, but none are semi-APO, APO, or in anyway valuable.
[/SIZE]
Posted 06/19/2009 09:37PM #3
In response to:

You are confusing Socialism with Social Democracy
Posted by Troy Bunch


I'll be happy to respond to your question about we paeons who are 'confused' about the difference between socialism and social democracy. I would consider this country to be a representative capitalist republic with socialistic institutions. Those institutions, the very vast majority were instituted and put in place by the democrats. They have largely been a disaster. We have a school system that is failing mainly because of a large UNION called the NEA, who do not believe in competition. How much money do you think we should keep shoveling into the schools?

Wash. DC has one of the highest pays for teachers, and yet one of the WORST academic achievement records in the nation. They might just counteract each other as the very highest and the VERY Worst.

We have always, since the days of FDR, balanced the sheets against pure capitalism and capitalism mixed with social programs.

In a nutshell, I don't like to see any kids w/o health care, and its too bad some families are in poverty. Who exactly do you think you are, to make a remark insinuating that I don't want children in this country to have health care, and that I don't care about those in poverty??

The key wording in your post is how you cavalierly remark about how it is typically done is to take money from those who have plenty, in the way of taxes, and give it to those who need it?

You statement was this:

"take away money from those who have plenty, usually by taxes, and give it to those who need it to survive"

Let me take the liberty of restructuring your assertion about social democracy: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Where have we heard this before?

Rich
Posted 06/22/2009 06:17AM #4
"you made this money in a system that is considered unjust by a majority of the people." Do you mean the system that we have now that gives out food stamps, free medical/dental care, housing subsidies, free education to the poor?In which anyone can go to an emergency room and get medical treatment-emergency or not, and not have to have insurance or any means to pay for it. In which these "poor" people usually have at least 1 car, 2tvs, microwave, x-boxes, and more? The poor that can get an "earned income tax credit" even if they owe no taxes that pays them cash from the Fed Gov't (taxpayers). Nearly 1/2 of the wage earners in this country pay NO federal tax at all. So, just what IS this "unjust system" that so many believe exists?