Buyer BEWARE!!!!

Looks like my damage claims have been denied. Strange the truely confused UPS system is still trying to pickup the telescope, while the UPS rep on the phone tells me that both claims have been denied.

UPS and the insurance companies involved are crap.

Guess I am stuck with a half assed Meade LXD55 SN8. This has been a real lesson in buying for me. I will never again use UPS for shipping and doubt if I will ever buy another item from an online auction. The item was advertised as being like new. I guess with the UPS history on the LXD group, this scope was like new. The new ones have the secondary mirrors falling off, the primary mirros scratched and rotated, the tripods busted etc. but since I did not buy this scope from a dealer or directly through Meade, I have no claim at all. I wounder why I bought insurance? The item is not like new any more and UPS has denied the insurance claim for what reason, I am unsure. This is truley a bunch of crap.

This is typical of UPS. I had a similar situation earlier this year involving a mount and tripod. UPS got the mount to me in one piece, but the tripod was wrecked. I filed the claim, UPS picked up the busted tripod, which I had repacked as close to the original packaging as I could get it, and UPS denied the claim as "Insufficient Packing". From what I have heard, UPS will claim this in almost every instance that a claim is filed. In my case the seller packed this thing to where an elephant could have stood on it, so I don't know how they managed to destroy it like they did. The seller filed an appeal, but a settlement was never paid, in spite of the fact that insurance had been purchased. I was out the tripod and the money for it and have not used UPS since then, and I will never use them again.

I have always wondered how much of UPS' profit margin consists of insurance that they sell with no intention of ever paying a claim?

I know it doesn't help, but sorry for your loss...

Doug
Midway, FL

Keep after UPS. It is almost standard practice to deny the initial claim hoping people will just give up. I had a similar situation last year when they destroyed a Takahashi telescope. It took time, documentation, and legal threats, but they finally paid the seller for the damage. Keep in mind that the shipper is the holder of the insurance and he is the one that has to do the hollering. UPS just ignored me as the recipient. In fact they told me that other than providing access to the damaged item, I had no recourse.

Good Luck,

John

I've had a similar problem with UPS. ( They are notorious for out of hand rejecting claims...you should see some of the net forum postings on this issue!) It became clear the person in power had no intention of allowing the claim no matter how valid. Small claims court came to mind.... but then the shipper filed a claim... and just on the paper claim the UPS person at their end reviewed the case and admitted UPS was at fault and paid! ( You might try that approach ).

Makes one wonder about all these new arbitration clauses that are popping up in banking/credit card/brokerage accounts... indicating that by using their services you forfeit the right to use the legal system and MUST use their "neutral" arbitrators, which are final and binding. Hmmm... if the arbitration firm is paid for by them... and they can fire 'em at will... how "neutral" can the party be???
( Whoa... that's off topic... )

Towards the end of last year I posted a message regarding UPS shipping. I shipped a TAK-102 in its original packaging from Chicago to Florida via UPS. When it arrived, there was no apparent damage to the outside of the box. When opened, the ocular looked like a compressed accordion. Upon further inspection, the fluorite lens had several small fractures in it. It appeared that the box was dropped from a considerable hieght and landed on end destroying the scope. After submitting an insurance claim to UPS, it was denial after denial, and more denial. Luckly, I took several pictures as I packed the scope and it showed no damage. The buyer sent me pictures of what it looked like upon delevery. I felt the obligation to refund his money because the scope did not arrive as described which was flawless. Between the two of us, it took three months before UPS settled the claim. Persistance and more persistance is needed when dealing with this company.

After a few calls and a few emails... UPS called me, they are re-evaluating this or passing it further up the chain. Go figure. Now why did they tell me it was denied?

I also contacted the shipper and he is going to persue this further with UPS from his side of the deal.
This makes me wonder if making the claim more difficult than it needs to be by denying off the cuff first and then only taking care of the ones that scream is standard practice? Seems like a reasonable policy to have if you are the shipping company. I can't figure what UPS has to gain, other than lower insurance premiums, they can't be self insured on these items. The insurance company is the "further up the chain" I am betting.

// Jerry

My company ships 300 packages a month or more with UPS. Items that weigh more than about 50 lb are particularly at risk. The handlers don't like them and go out of their way to show it. We are very good at packing and use foam in place for many items, but EVERY claim we make for expensive items has been denied at the receiving end. When we get them back and keep complaining, most claims are paid.

I just shipped a Questar 7 from the west coast to the east coast and back with no problems. The case was bulletproof, but the real key is insurance. Items that are insured for more than $3000 are checked by supervisors at each stop.

Keep trying. All the claims we have made that were reconsidered have been paid. UPS customer service stinks (like something else that is brown).

I am an insurance professional, in the business 17 years with extensive insurance education and I'm on your side. There is a door open to you in alleging "Bad Faith" against the insurance operations of UPS. In part, the various statutes protect you when an insurance carrier routinely denies claims knowing they should be paid, forcing lawsuits to recover payments, etc.

I offer that you go get a good lawyer who sues insurance companies. Class action "Bad Faith" allegations should send a chill through Brown's spine! With punitive damages, you could end up buying a telescope company!
You might even end up on 60 Minutes!
Don't get mad, get even.
Tom

Ok, I have an idea, even though this is a little late. Did you or could you file a homeowners insurance claim. Once its on your property they will pay for it and then stick it to UPS "the bill that is". You legally own it the instant you pay for it. Whether it be check or money order or whatever. If you paid by credit card they will pay for it through there insurance program. Of course you can only file one claim for each injury.

The Astromart AD is gone. There is no link to it and I can prove nothing, here is the original ad copy/paste.
--- QUOTE ---
Reposted after prior sale fell through.
This is a 8" LXD-55 Schmidt-Newt package as sold by Meade -- if you can find one! This scope is heavily backordered by most dealers, and waits of several months are the norm. This one is in like new condition, and has everything -- OTA, finder, GOTO mount, Autostar, tripod, accessory tray, eyepiece, instructions, and the original boxes. It's a nice performer, but too heavy for my weak back. Everything is there, except I swapped the collimation screws for stainless steel [original screws included]. $875 + shipping [runs $950 new, but nobody has one!]. Email me with any questions. Thanks!
--- END QUOTE ---

I guess the "like new condition" is what really caught my attention. Have I been screwed? I am your basic person. I bought sight unseen, trusted the seller and UPS, and now I have a scope that is not a total loss, but it is far from "like new condition". There is no proving that UPS shipping caused the damage, there is no proving the seller intentionally sold the scope pre-damaged. I did finally take the OTA apart, the mirror scuffs are not severe. What troubles me is the glue holding the mirror cell backing plate on and the finger prints on the backing plate covered with white "smoke". I build model airplanes and the white smoke plastic say CA glue (super glue) in an enclosed area, the fumes work wonders on finger prints. Then there is the center dot for focuser centering and the corrector simply will not come loose from the tube.

UGH! If only I had known.