My Experience with Woden Optics

I decided to send another mirror for "free" testing at Woden Optics. Unfortunately, this has proved to be a nightmare, in contrast to my previous experience with this vendor.
I originally sent two mirrors for free testing at Woden Optics in the past and I was satisfied with the experience. At the time I sent these mirrors for testing, I did have to contact Woden because I hadn't heard from him but eventually I did receive a copy of the computer-generated report of the P-V and strehl ratio of my mirrors. I also received them back in a reasonable amount of time since I had enclosed a check for return shipping and insurance as well as a "handling charge" that Woden requires in order for the mirrors to be tested. (At the time, Woden explained the delay in sending results because of "sickness." His website states a optic sent to him will be "in house for one week".)
This time, I sent a 10" mirror for testing along with a check for return shipping and insurance and Woden's charge for "handling" the optic while at his shop.
After my mirror was at his shop for a week, I e-mailed Woden and asked for results. Instead of the comupter generated report, I got the P-V and strehl ratio results simply stated in a return e-mail. I didn't have a problem with the manner the results appeared in but I would have preferred to see the computer generated attachment that I had received with my first two mirrors that had been sent in 2005. I e-mailed Woden and asked for my mirror to be returned to me and I received an e-mail two days later stating, "no problem."
I expected my mirror to be shipped back to me promptly after that e-mail (as was the case with my first two mirrors) but after 15 days I've received nothing even though both Woden and myself reside in the same state. I've called and requested a tracking number for my mirror via e-mail and I left a voice mail on Woden's answering machine but without any response. I called Woden several times on Monday April 3 and I got a message that the phone number was "NO LONGER IN SERVICE." I then e-mailed Woden again since his website is still active and notified him about his phone number being out of service and again demanded a tracking number for my mirror. I stated I would be posting my experience with him on the AM as well as on another website and it would be a step that I would prefer not to take and again asked for a tracking number so I could have some assurance that my mirror is being returned to me. Again, I received no response.
As of today, Woden's phone number is working again as I got the same answering machine message that I know only too well.
If any of you have any recommendations on how I might be able to get my mirror back from Woden Optics, I would be appreciative of your comments. I am considering contacting the better business bureau and/or local law enforcement agencies to learn what options may exist in getting Woden to return my property to me.

He a skilled and reputable individual. Give him the benefit of the doubt and I am confident he'll come through for you! Hang in there!

I've had no personal dealings with Woden, but I've heard generally favorable comments about him.

My impression is he's a one man shop.

He should have kept in contact with you, but the skills needed to make a good telescope or mirror are different than those needed to run a successful business.

It's possible he greatly underestimated the time it would take to get re established in his new location.

I would expect paying customers get taken care of before ones he's doing a free service for. He may have gotten some orders. The $8 service charge sounds insignificant.

I'm not sure of the time line on this, when did he receive your mirror?

Otherwise, my advice is to try to take things down a notch.

In his eyes, he's doing you a favor by testing it for free. (and other than the delay, it's a nice favor)

It might not hurt to let him know you appreciate his efforts.

A message along the lines of "Sorry if I've seemed impatient" along with a thanks for providing this service, and a friendly reminder you're anxious to use your scope might help.

Good luck with it.

I have been following this situation since before it was placed here and have had personal correspondence with Rod over this matter.
I do understand his frustration with the situation. It is not easy to have patience when you are unable to get information concerning the problem.
I too believe that something has happened with Cary, maybe he is out of town, or maybe he is still in the process of setting up the new location?
But, when communication is lost, so is patience. This is a critical point for those who are in business, you must keep people informed as to progress.
We have had a few situations here lately where companies were late with a product or service and there was a lack of communication. Each time the customer was not happy and ended up venting here on Astromart because they felt they had no other avenue of communication. This is sad really, because it is not productive and just causes hard feeling on both sides.
I am not sure whether is proper of warranted to make complaints here, maybe that is not what the forum is about. But, if there is a problem and no solution, then I guess a person has the right to state the facts as they see it. Usually there are two sides to every situation and unfortunately, we see only one side with this type of problem. Manufacturers do not like to come here to defend themselves or make statements in public forums for various reasons, including liability.
I think that Rod is upset and just wants his mirror returned to him. I don't think he wants to hurt Woden Optics, but rather to bring pressure to bear so that he might get his mirror back.
I don't think this is how I would have proceeded, but this was not my problem so I cannot make judgment. But given the way that this situation has deteriorated, I am not sure what else would do.

Okay, Against my better judgment, I'll offer my two cents.

If I understand your post correctly this is the third time that you have taken advantage of Cary's very generous offer of free mirror testing.

I couldn't help but notice that you put the word Free in quotes in your original posting as if to insinuate that the small handling fee he charges somehow negates the claim of it being free. If he gets a few bucks for tape to reseal the carton, gas to the mailing center, and ink for the label, that still qualifies as free to anyone with a sense of the value of his offer. I believe that OMI charges around $200 for this service.

The fact that this is the third time you have taken advantage of it, suggests that you might have some inkling of the value - Say about $600 or so.

On top of that you say that your two previous experiences were satisfactory, I guess that didn't buy him much good karma with you.

Instead of coming on this venue and asking for help in reaching Cary from those here who know him, you choose the nuclear option and create a permanent public record this episode, casting him and his business in a negative light with threats of going to law enforcement and the better business bureau with what appears to be complete disregard for the courtesy he has extended to you by testing your mirror for FREE - Notice no Quotations.

Do I agree that he should have maintained better communication, Yes I do. Do I think that you are overreacting and showing monumental ingratitude by your actions, Yes I do.

I am sure you will get your property back without the Local SWAT team kicking in the doors of his business, and I would not blame Cary a bit if yours was the last mirror that he tested for free. If so, those of us who will miss the opportunity are glad you got your THREE free tests.

No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

Rod,
I can very well understand how you feel at this juncture. A while back I bought an item from an individual who is well know in the astronomy community. Although I normally never send money for something until I have had voice contact via phone I did this time given the individuals reputation. I sent several hundred dollars via PayPal and received the usual notification of payment from PayPal. After a week of not hearing any thing from this person I called and got an answering machine just saying he was out. I left a message in fact several over the next few days.I sent numerous e-mails. Finally I went to the Yahoo group that had been formed for the product in question and asked for assistance in finding out how I could contact this person. I told my story and did say that "this was no way to run a business. I made no threats and simply asked for help. As it was after about 4 days someone posted that they thought this fellow was in Europe attending a Astronomy event. Finally after all most three weeks I got an e-mail from the person advising that they had indeed been gone and would now send my article to me. Up till then I had not even received so much as an e-mail indicating that he had received payment-nothing. How hard would it have been to have posted a notice on his web site or at least with the yahoo group that he would be gone? Or some message on his answering machine. One thing that did happen even though my post on the Yahoo group was no where as intense as yours i.e. threatening I still got a lot of flack by people who felt the need to defend this person with some of it derogatory. There I was feeling like I am the victim and the next thing I knew I was the Bad Guy!!! The person in question was a very nice guy and I had no problems with the exception of the above issue. I was very glad that I had not expressed all that I had been feeling during the time that I could not contact him. However I have also learned that it is easy for people to counsel patience and or moderation when it is not their money or item in question. To sum this up I am feeling bad for both you and Woden Optics. My feeling is that you are owed an apology by Woden Optics and although understandable you may well need to apologize to Woden , for some of your posts, should it turn out that the delay and absence of communication was just humanly unavoidable. I have to agree with Floyd when it comes to using the forum as a means of retribution although this may have been unintentional on your part. I give you the same benefit of the doubt that perhaps we should extend to Woden as well. I sure hope this situation resolves itself in a manner that is positive for both of you. Keep us posted as the outcome may well be of interest to all of us.
Take care,
Dan