Image of the day

From the
ATWB Customer Gallery

Lake Lanier Sunrise

My Account

New to Astromart?

Register an account...

Need Help?

Is it time for Atlas to Shrug?

Started by DaveWagner, 10/16/2008 06:21PM
Posted 10/16/2008 06:21PM Opening Post
So, here we are in 2008, with a demonstrable (and proud of it) socialist apparently about to win the US presidency, touting his "tax the rich to fight for the poor and middle class". The only alternative being an economically illiterate, aged Republican in Name Only... And either way, a congress dominated by socialists (in both parties).

Our reality:

The top 1% of earners already pay 38% of all federal taxes
The top 5% of earners already pay 59% of all federal taxes
Almost 50% of all workers pay NO federal taxes...

The cycle is obvious, the trends inevitable. Socialism at the point of a gun is already here, and getting worse.

Obama proudly claims he'll give even more in "tax credits" back to the "poor and middle class"; this will most certainly result in a situation where less than half the earners are paying ALL the taxes.

Is it time for those of us who actually work, earn, create companies, products and services... and who are continually taken advantage of, continually and increasingly taxed (at the point of the government gun)...

to simply say: "you are right, being rich is evil, earning money is evil, so we quit, we earn no more, we employ no more..."

and quit playing their game?

What say YOU, Astromarters?
Posted 10/16/2008 06:51PM #1
Tax the rich, feed the poor is not necesarily socialism...sorry.

My wife and I combined make less than 50g a year, why should I pay higher taxes to support corporate fat cats when I am already supporting them by doing thier grunt work.
Especially when those fat cats have completely screwed any chance that the children of the future may have in this country.....
OBAMA '08

It is what it is...
Posted 10/16/2008 08:47PM #2
How can anyone work and not pay taxes. I have worked for 45 years and paid taxes with every job I have ever had.

[SIZE="Large"][/SIZE][COLOR="Blue"][/COLOR] Floyd Blue grin
Amateur Imager
Posted 10/16/2008 08:58PM #3
The most regressive tax is social security. And that one will never be removed, either by Republicans or Democrats.

Sales tax is also regressive, but at least it hits all income levels equally, at least for the things which qualify for sales tax. Higher tax brackets are not hit quite so hard by sales tax, simply because many things that rich folks buy, are not subject to sales tax.

One has to be self-employed to fully understand the burden of the Social Security tax. I'm not a high-roller. Have been self-employed over three decades. Sometimes the Social Security tax bill was higher than the income tax. The two add together of course. Add em togther and send Uncle a painful check. Tax refund? Self-Employed never get tax refunds unless they stupidly overestimate quarterly payments.

Have been 'lucky' because there was never a year so low I didn't owe income tax. Income has gotta get painfully low before Uncle Sugar doesn't charge income tax. But hardly any income is low enough to avoid Social Security.

The guy who nets $1000 a year mowing lawns, or the guy who nets $100,000 a year consulting-- In 2008 both of those guys have to pay Uncle Sugar 15.30% off the net, with no credits or deductions. But any feller who earns more than $102,000, doesn't have to pay SS tax any higher than the $102,000 mark. That is what makes it a 'poor and middle class only' tax.

The non-self-employed, only pay half that, and the employer pays the other half. Any half-way decent employer could painlessly give you a 7.15% pay raise if Social Security tax was abolished.

The standard argument is that this is fair, because it is a 'retirement program'. However, all the SS receipts go into the general fund and are spent as soon as they come in. SS payout system has always been a 'welfare program for old folks'. I think a welfare program for old and disabled makes perfect sense. Its only right.

But it ain't a retirement program. If it was a retirement program, if I die before retirement, the govt would cut my wife a check for all my SS payments + interest.

The FIRST thing we could do to make the tax system fair, is slightly adjust income tax rates (for revenue neutrality), and eliminate the Social Security tax.

NOBODY, EVER, from either party, ever suggests that. It would remove too huge a cash slush fund, paid almost entirely by the poor and middle class.
Posted 10/16/2008 11:29PM #4
Once again, David, where did you get your figures?


There are only 10 kinds of people who understand binary - those that do and those that don't
Posted 10/18/2008 05:56AM #5
Seriously, I'm in no mood to hear any whining from rich people. Despite working for a very profitable company, there is a good chance that I will lose my job in the next month so that my employer can have a lower cost structure and be more nimble, more agile, and dare I say it more outsourced and more Indian.

The richest Americans will see a few pennies more earnings per share and will be more excited about their stock portfolio. If I am lucky, I will most likely bear the cost of buying out a lease and moving to a company that can use my services. In the meantime, I have ceased consumer spending and deferred many of the purchases that fuel our economy and their is a ripple effect that will impact many people.

We also just authorized $750 billion to prop up the banks and the stock market and benefit many of the richest Americans.

And, income inequality continues to grow.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

I am for tax cuts, economic growth, and job creation.
But, I also think Economic Treason should be a crime.

[SIZE="Small"]------------
I have several telescopes, but none are semi-APO, APO, or in anyway valuable.
[/SIZE]
Posted 10/18/2008 08:41AM | Edited 10/18/2008 08:43AM #6
David Wagner said:
Is it time for those of us who actually work, earn, create companies, products and services... and who are continually taken advantage of, continually and increasingly taxed (at the point of the government gun)...

to simply say: "you are right, being rich is evil, earning money is evil, so we quit, we earn no more, we employ no more..."

and quit playing their game?
Oh brother. Being wealthy and/or is not a charity operation. If you want to stop being wealthy and cut off your own nose to spite your face that's your business. If you want to get out of the rat race there's always someone who will replace you. Such voids have a way of getting filled.

And tax isn't punishment, it isn't a tool for telling what is or isn't evil. It's a tool for funding government operations. If you like roads, learn to live with taxes. If you like wars like Bush's adventure in Iraq, then you should absolutely love taxes and be begging to pay more.

Being rich doesn't make anyone evil, it makes them rich - which means quite simply that they are better able to pay with less pain than someone less rich. It's really just as simple as that. Tax isn't punishment or something to tell you you're bad. It is what it is.
Posted 10/20/2008 01:29AM #7
David Wagner said:

So, here we are in 2008, with a demonstrable (and proud of it) socialist apparently about to win the US presidency, touting his "tax the rich to fight for the poor and middle class". The only alternative being an economically illiterate, aged Republican in Name Only... And either way, a congress dominated by socialists (in both parties).

Our reality:

The top 1% of earners already pay 38% of all federal taxes
The top 5% of earners already pay 59% of all federal taxes
Almost 50% of all workers pay NO federal taxes...

The cycle is obvious, the trends inevitable. Socialism at the point of a gun is already here, and getting worse.

Obama proudly claims he'll give even more in "tax credits" back to the "poor and middle class"; this will most certainly result in a situation where less than half the earners are paying ALL the taxes.

Is it time for those of us who actually work, earn, create companies, products and services... and who are continually taken advantage of, continually and increasingly taxed (at the point of the government gun)...

to simply say: "you are right, being rich is evil, earning money is evil, so we quit, we earn no more, we employ no more..."

and quit playing their game?

What say YOU, Astromarters?


Or simply say nothing at all. That sounds best to me. Fade away if need be. But quietly, please.